How can Glock jump ahead...?

[jlh95811]

It's all about the grip in my opinion. Buyers buy mainly for two reasons.

1. Price
2. Feel of the gun in THEIR hands.

Price is not so bad. We know they are worth a bit more due to the rock solid reliability and ease of use.

Grip is the major issue for most prospective buyers. Including myself. I want a G20 SO BAD! I just cant hold them properly without it hurting my wrist or getting slide bite. The angle of the grip is not so bad as it is the front to back length. The backstrap is too large. They need to make interchangable ones like the M&P has. Or offer a second grip style similar to the XD. I'd buy it for sure then. Also the beavertail/tang/thingie mabob sits too high and is not long enough.

Many a person I've talked to about Glocks come up with these same issues. MANY experience slide bite. Especially those of us with big boy meat hooks.

[jlh95811]

/flame suit on

Glock will need to add thumb and/or grip safety's eventually. Despite their advertising they are not as safe as many other semi-autos. I know that the best safety is between the shooter's ears, but having additional safeties is not necesarily a bad thing.

I know of several accidental discharges, some fatal, that would not of happened if the pistol had a thumb and/or grip safety. Unlike a double action revolver, the Glock's technically double action trigger pull of 5.5lbs (or less) is too light imho.

Call me a 1911 fanboi if you want, but I wouldn't carry my 1911 cocked and unlocked, which is very near to how glocks are routinely carried. Triggers get pulled by negligent gun handlers, whether by improper technique, inattention, loss of focus due to stress, people thinking they're unloaded or children getting access to them.

Thumb safety's/grip safety's add another line of defense and are just as fast to put into action when needed by trained shooters.

How bout the guy that got shot by his son that brought a lawsuit against Glock. Perfect example.

They do need to have another safety or two but I personally do not like thumb safeties.

Grip safeties on the other hand. BEST IDEA EVER! You are going to grip the gun before you shoot it anyway.

3 safeties should suffice.
Two are god given. Brains and a working index finger. The other in my opinion is a grip safety.

Of course this won't stop a kid from using it maybe but that would mean you have already thrown safety out the window by allowing your gun to be accessed by unauthorized users.

[HCz]

1. ambidexterous slide lock: something like HK P2000 style which extends to where the shooting hand's thumb is, so that it can also work for lefties.

2. enhanced take down system: current system requires pulling the trigger, which has resulted in NDs when it comes to Glocks(and other striker-based firearms). It is user's fault, but if Glock can somehow make it so that you don't have to pull the trigger to field strip, that would be better. This can be done with #1 above in HK P2000 style.

3. better grip angle: I prefer 1911 style grip angle. While some prefer current angle, I think more people prefer 1911 angle.

4. (ambidexterous) magazine release: being able to release the magazine from either side should be a breeze. While it can be done without using ambidexterous buttons, it is better to have one. Also, they need to make the release a bit better. Current style is ok, but it can be a bit bigger and protrude a bit more. Vickers came up with his version that is a bout 1/8 or 1/16th longer. That should be considered. Glock now has ambidexterous magazine release, but needs a little more work IMO.

5. front and back serrations instead of finger grooves, replaceable backstraps: The trend is to have replaceable backstraps, and it helps with individual's grip. Additional feature, serrations, can help more. Although HK45 has finger groove, I think it is better to have serrations as it allows free placement of fingers in front of the grip.

6. safety: Get rid of that useless trigger safety, and actually have a decocker or an external safety. It is ultimately up to the user, but I'd suggest there are more to it.

some other minor stuff
*factory default plugs for bottom of the grip
*bigger trigger well
*slanted angle near muzzle(26/27 already has these)
*picatiny rail
*smooth face trigger on all models by default.

[rkt88edmo]

1. Cheaper
2. Single stack 9mm

[TonyM]

Why mess with perfection?

And, to anyone recommending major frame changes, that kills them from the California Market, since they are opposed to Magazine disconnects, and who knows what the DOJ qualifies as a LCI.....

Glocks will continue to outsell due to being the AK's of handguns... They always work, dirty or filthy.

[draconianruler]

Besides a cheaper price, nothing. Glocks are still what other companies strive to beat for a reason

[slick_711]

no need for gimmicks. they're already proven.

+1

/flame suit on

Glock will need to add thumb and/or grip safety's eventually. Despite their advertising they are not as safe as many other semi-autos. I know that the best safety is between the shooter's ears, but having additional safeties is not necesarily a bad thing.

I know of several accidental discharges, some fatal, that would not of happened if the pistol had a thumb and/or grip safety. Unlike a double action revolver, the Glock's technically double action trigger pull of 5.5lbs (or less) is too light imho.

Call me a 1911 fanboi if you want, but I wouldn't carry my 1911 cocked and unlocked, which is very near to how glocks are routinely carried. Triggers get pulled by negligent gun handlers, whether by improper technique, inattention, loss of focus due to stress, people thinking they're unloaded or children getting access to them.

Thumb safety's/grip safety's add another line of defense and are just as fast to put into action when needed by trained shooters.

?? Your gun should never be in the hands of anyone other than a trained shooter. If it is, you failed, not the gun. It doesn't need safeties. It has three that ensure it doesn't go off unless the trigger is pulled. You are there to ensure the trigger is not pulled. And how would a grip safety prevent an ND? ... It would not...

As far as the LE market being sewn up, the Smith & Wesson M&Ps are given them a run for their money. A lot of Depts are switching over. I don't think they're gonna bump Glock anytime soon, but it will be interesting to see what happens in the future.

I'll tell you what will happen. The M&Ps will fail and those departments will switch back.

How bout the guy that got shot by his son that brought a lawsuit against Glock. Perfect example.

They do need to have another safety or two but I personally do not like thumb safeties.

Grip safeties on the other hand. BEST IDEA EVER! You are going to grip the gun before you shoot it anyway.

3 safeties should suffice.
Two are god given. Brains and a working index finger. The other in my opinion is a grip safety.

How about that guy? He was an idiot. And Glock has 3 safeties.... Furthermore, as I said above, how will a grip safety prevent an ND? It prevents discharges from outside forces interacting with the gun, if you have your hand even remotely on the gun, the grip safety is disengaged and the gun will fire if you are negligent...

1. ambidexterous slide lock: something like HK P2000 style which extends to where the shooting hand's thumb is, so that it can also work for lefties.

Left handed people fail.

2. enhanced take down system: current system requires pulling the trigger, which has resulted in NDs when it comes to Glocks(and other striker-based firearms). It is user's fault, but if Glock can somehow make it so that you don't have to pull the trigger to field strip, that would be better. This can be done with #1 above in HK P2000 style.

The Glock is SO easy to field strip. And you said it, it's the users fault.

3. better grip angle: I prefer 1911 style grip angle. While some prefer current angle, I think more people prefer 1911 angle.

I agree here, but it's been done aftermarket.

4. (ambidexterous) magazine release: being able to release the magazine from either side should be a breeze. While it can be done without using ambidexterous buttons, it is better to have one. Also, they need to make the release a bit better. Current style is ok, but it can be a bit bigger and protrude a bit more. Vickers came up with his version that is a bout 1/8 or 1/16th longer. That should be considered. Glock now has ambidexterous magazine release, but needs a little more work IMO.

And then when they change it you'll be mad you hit it on accident?

5. front and back serrations instead of finger grooves, replaceable backstraps: The trend is to have replaceable backstraps, and it helps with individual's grip. Additional feature, serrations, can help more. Although HK45 has finger groove, I think it is better to have serrations as it allows free placement of fingers in front of the grip.

It's a service pistol... if they make 800 variations it's harder to implement into service use. Be realistic here and think from their perspective...

6. safety: Get rid of that useless trigger safety, and actually have a decocker or an external safety. It is ultimately up to the user, but I'd suggest there are more to it.

Decock what? External safety? Glock has done this on a special [large] order basis. But why? The trigger safety ensures your gun doesn't fire itself, the rest is up to you and if you can't handle that you shouldn't have a gun. There are no more to it.

some other minor stuff
*factory default plugs for bottom of the grip That hole is there for a reason.
*bigger trigger well Go for a jog.
*slanted angle near muzzle(26/27 already has these) So it can be aerodynamic???
*picatiny rail Don't put stupid things on guns anyway.
*smooth face trigger on all models by default. Ok.

All this said, I hope I didn't offend anyone, just playing devil's advocate. I own zero Glocks. But I do admire them for their reliability, ease of use, and easy maintenance. As a range employee I have watched XDs, M&Ps, and everything else break. Our Glocks need the least attention, which is boring for me as a Glock armorer. They don't break. They go bang. Why change them?

I also promise to never again abuse Kestryl's multi-quote function. But it was too convenient.

[redcliff]

Slick 711, I'm glad you're the poster boy for proper gun handling and gun safety, but in the real world negligent/accidental discharges do happen. Even by highly trained people..and yes firearms do get left where others can get at them at times.

Grip safeties can prevent a 4 year old from shooting himself in the head as happened recently up here. Thumb safeties can prevent people from shooting themselves while reholsterring their weapons improperly.

Pull your head out of the sand and do a Google search on "glock accidental discharge" and see the results. 120 accidental discharges in the last 10 years...in one department alone.

[jlh95811]

Slick 711:
I would say you are the biggest Glock fanboy I've ever witnessed but you don't even own one. That's odd. You would think that a person who seems to believe a Glock is worth it's weight in Gold would own nothing but.

I'm not trying to be rude or make fun of you but you sound like a little kid defending their favorite toy. *fingers in ears* "la la laaaaaaaaaa la laaaaaaa, I can't hear you"

Seriously though. Extra safeties never got anyone shot. Lack of safeties prove to do so often. A glock is likely the most commonly accidentally discharged handgun in current production.

They are not safe.

As for the three safeties you claim please let us know what they are. As far as I know the trigger safety is it for manual safeties on a Glock. Likely I am wrong as I'm not an expert but I have shot them.

A very small child can pull a trigger but not most can wrap their hands around a grip properly to depress the safety and still squeeze the trigger. Of course this is not always the case though as I know quite a few kids that can operate a childproof cigarette lighter.

[g17owner]

Poor training. Period. I dont care how many safties you put on a gun if its user error its user error. There have been many documented cases of 1911's having AD's and deaths and they posses what many believe is the holy grail of safeties. Thumb and grip safeties. If you introduce stupid people to the mix stupid things are going to happen. If you leave a firearms unsecured and a child gets ahold of it its your fault. Period end of discussion. The only thing i can see glock putting on their guns easily and cheaply is a key lock mechanism that would render the weapon inoperable in the event a child was to get ahold of it. I'm not saying glocks are perfect but adding more safeties isnt going to make them safer. Better training and weapons handling will. If you can handle that dont own a gun.

Technically speaking there are three 'safeties' on a glock. The trigger safety, the firing pin safety/plunger aka passive safety, and the drop safety. Look at the "Gun Digest Book of the Glock" by Patrick Sweeney. Pages 20-21.

[jlh95811]

Poor training. Period. I dont care how many safties you put on a gun if its user error its user error. There have been many documented cases of 1911's having AD's and deaths and they posses what many believe is the holy grail of safeties. Thumb and grip safeties. If you introduce stupid people to the mix stupid things are going to happen. If you leave a firearms unsecured and a child gets ahold of it its your fault. Period end of discussion. The only thing i can see glock putting on their guns easily and cheaply is a key lock mechanism that would render the weapon inoperable in the event a child was to get ahold of it. I'm not saying glocks are perfect but adding more safeties isnt going to make them safer. Better training and weapons handling will. If you can handle that dont own a gun.

Care to elaborate?
It may not make each particualr user safer but would, without a doubt, make the gun safer.

[Slayer]

Unless you are on Glock's payroll, you may want to calm it down a little, slick711. How the hell are the M&Ps going to fail? You know this how?

[jlh95811]

Unless you are on Glock's payroll, you may want to calm it down a little, slick711. How the hell are the M&Ps going to fail? You know this how?

Because Glocks r teh leet

[g17owner]

Okay lets take a SIG(p series) there is no external safety, it has a decocker yes but pull the trigger and it goes boom. How is that safer than a glock? 1911? Okay well we all know the thumb safety cant be engaged unless the hammer is back, if a round is in the chamber and the thumb safety is inadvertantly swiped off that can be very dangerious situation with only "one" safety making it safe especially with light 1911 triggers. "one" safety keeping you safe hmmm? HK USP well almost same boat as a 1911, chambered round, decocked pull the trigger, boom!! Not really any safer than a glock, Or leave the thumb safety on and then your chambered with the hammer back and a light SA pull, how easy is it to swipe that thumb safety off under stress and in a hurry? Pretty easy. So your running around with a weapon with a lighter trigger(SA) than a glock with a round in the pipe and under stress. accidental discharge just waiting to happen according to you. Correct?

My point is no matter how many feel good about yourself type safeties you want to put on a weapon and think its going to be safe your just kidding yourself. The key component is additional proper training, proper weapon handling and keeping your darn finger off the trigger until your ready to fire. I dont care if its a glock, sig, 1911, HK, XD, Berreta, whatever. You have to be responsible for your own actions and not depend or rely on safeties to save you.

[xxxx]

From the posts here I wouldn't want to be in a room with a handgun and you guys. Safety = You, not some lever - a DEA agent taught me that