AR Pistol Question

[ReddingShooter]

Well, it is good to see that they are finally catching up with the times. However, DO NOT rely on them unless you get something in writing. What they say over the phone won't keep you out of jail.

-Mb

got that right...LOL

it is mind boggling though how many opinions among calgunners there is on this specific subject. in reading 31505 P.C. on pistols, it seemed awfully cut and dried that the pistol would have to have the good old detachable magazine for the section to apply and if you have a bullet button, effectively making it a FIXED magazine, then 31505 wouldnt apply.....

[ReddingShooter]

http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

this one?

[ReddingShooter]

got that right...LOL

it is mind boggling though how many opinions among calgunners there is on this specific subject. in reading 31505 P.C. on pistols, it seemed awfully cut and dried that the pistol would have to have the good old detachable magazine for the section to apply and if you have a bullet button, effectively making it a FIXED magazine, then 31505 wouldnt apply.....

AND, if the feds say that if your pistol is over 26" then its not considered a pistol for the purposes of federal regulations, and if 31505 doesnt apply because of the bullet button/fixed magazine thing, then it WOULD be OK in california both at state and federal level to own an AR pistol with a bullet button/fixed magazine with a vertical forward grip IF your pistol was OVER 26"...

[ReddingShooter]

and i havent seen a thing on HORIZONTAL grips!...LOL....

[ReddingShooter]

isnt there any case law on this?

id figure that if the VFG was illegal, as many people that have them on AR pistols, california would have been arresting AR pistol owners and have been prosecuting, which should have given us some case law to look back at and clear all of the confusion up.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

this one?

Yup. That is the one. And because of the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment, it applies to all of us. Franklin Armory was smart enough to get that in writing, and took the AR pistol market by storm here in California a few years back. That letter is probably one of the most important ones the ATF has come up with for those of us stuck behind enemy lines in the People's Republic. It is about as close as we can get to an SBR.

-Mb

[ReddingShooter]

Yup. That is the one. And because of the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment, it applies to all of us. Franklin Armory was smart enough to get that in writing, and took the AR pistol market by storm here in California a few years back. That letter is probably one of the most important ones the ATF has come up with for those of us stuck behind enemy lines in the People's Republic. It is about as close as we can get to an SBR.

-Mb

yep......

also i just got off the telephone with a long time very knowledgeable well known firearms attorney. he said in all his years as a gun lawyer in california, he has never heard of one single person being prosecuted for a forward grip on an AR pistol. hes going to be doing some actual legal digging ad make some calls on the subject and ill talk to him again next week, and ill get a letter from him with his actual legal opinion on the whole subject.

[Quiet]

1.if you own an AR pistol, and it has a bullet button installed, a forward grip is OK under CALIFORNIA law as any BS over "evil features" does NOT apply.

2. FEDERALLY if your AR pistol is OVER 26" (such as would be usually if your build was with a 10.5" barrel) that the forward grip issue also DOES NOT APPLY as per BATFE it wouldnt be considered a pistol.

1. Correct.
Under CA laws...
A semi-auto pistol that accepts detachable magazines can not legally have a second handgrip. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)]
A semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine (maglock + 10 round magazine) can legally have a second handgrip.
Second handgrip is any type of forward grip (angled, horizontal, vertical).

Under Federal laws...
A Title 1 Handgun with a vertical forward grip is legally considered a Title 2 AOW. Which means, if you do not have BATFE approval to make a Title 2 AOW, it would be illegal (Federal felony) for you to attach a vertical forward grip on to the handgun.
A Title 1 Handgun can legally have an angled forward grip and/or a horizontal forward grip.

Therefore, in order to be legal under both Federal and CA laws...
A Title 1 Handgun that is semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine can legally have an angled forward grip and/or a horizontal forward grip.
In order to legally have a vertical forward grip, the semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine must first be made into an AOW (BATFE approval).


2. Correct.
Under Federal laws...
A firearm with a barrel length of less than 16" and an overall length of greater than 26" and does not have a shoulder stock, is considered a Title 1 Other firearm.
A Title 1 Other firearm can legally have any type of forward grip (angled, horizontal, vertical).

Under CA laws...
A firearm with a barrel length of less than 16", is considered a "handgun".

Therefore, in order to be legal under both Federal and CA laws...
A Title 1 Other that is a semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine can legally have an angled forward grip, horizontal forward grip, and/or vertical forward grip.
A Title 1 Other that is a semi-auto pistol that accepts detachable magazines can not legally have a threaded barrel, second handgrip, barrel shroud, or be able to accept a magazine outside of the pistol grip.