Technical questions 2.5" grouping vs 1.5" grouping

[Litespeeds]

As quoted by Angus Hobdell:

If the pistol ammo combo can only shoot 6" at 25 yards then that is all you can ever achieve, you will never know if you could be better.
If the pistol ammo combo shoot 1.5" at 25 now you have something to aspire to and you know any error stopping you from achieving these groups are your own.

[RickD427]

Tight does not equal accurate, concise even contact with bottom lugs, snug lockup on the hood, and a well fit barrel, bushing, slide will get you the result of accuracy. I had a springer 9mm with a kart barrel that was bank vault tight in battery and the minute the barrel unlocked the gun was loose as a goose.... best of both worlds...super accurate and uber reliable.

^^^^THIS^^^^

If all other factors were equal, a tighter action will produce tighter groups. But all other factors are not always equal. It's more important to duplicate the "lock-up" of the action after each shot. That takes a lot of detailed fitting by a skilled gunsmith. That's what you're paying the extra money for in the 1.5" Les Baer.

You'll need the shooting skills and the right ammunition in order to realize the benefit of that extra fitting.

[Khromo]

It all depends on the shooter.

It won't matter to guys shooting minute-of-full-size-silhouette-target at seven yards.

The difference will matter to excellent shooters who can wring out the difference on the range.

The difference might not matter at first, but it may start to matter after thousands of rounds, when the lock-up loosens up and the groups start to get bigger. Some guys who liked the gun out of the box will find the deteriorating accuracy is a problem. You would have to shoot the gun a lot, though, enough to become an excellent shooter if you practice with a purposeful, well-conceived plan. Most gun owners will never get there.

It all depends on the shooter.

[static2126]

It all depends on the shooter.

It won't matter to guys shooting minute-of-full-size-silhouette-target at seven yards.

The difference will matter to excellent shooters who can wring out the difference on the range.

The difference might not matter at first, but it may start to matter after thousands of rounds, when the lock-up loosens up and the groups start to get bigger. Some guys who liked the gun out of the box will find the deteriorating accuracy is a problem. You would have to shoot the gun a lot, though, enough to become an excellent shooter if you practice with a purposeful, well-conceived plan. Most gun owners will never get there.

It all depends on the shooter.

Agreed 100%

[RandyD]

Always Give Your Customers The Opportunity To Pay More.

My intuition is, the above quote strikes to the heart of the matter.

I would like to know exactly what are the different parts, fittings, amount of labor, ecetera does it take to build a 1911 to shoot 1.5" groups at 50 yards compared to building a 1911 to shoot 3" groups at 50 yards.

[Kowan]

My intuition is, the above quote strikes to the heart of the matter.

I would like to know exactly what are the different parts, fittings, amount of labor, ecetera does it take to build a 1911 to shoot 1.5" groups at 50 yards compared to building a 1911 to shoot 3" groups at 50 yards.

Call Les Baer up and ask him.

[Snoopy47]

There is a shooting game/competition called Bullseye shooting.

Below is the target for 50 yards. The 25 yard target diameter is the same, but the 8 ring is not blacked out.

Buying a run of the mill Les Baer pistol is capable of getting a perfect score of 300, but the X's are not guaranteed.

A 1.5 inch guaranteed pistol is capable of shooting a perfect 300-30x.

That is the purpose for these pistols.

[Gunxy]

This is what I'd like learn about my gun, as mentioned by RandyD. And I will not call Mr Les Baer, because I want to save myself listening to his expletives and swearing over the phone and then, probably, he would hang up.

[Litespeeds]

Are these people shooting that small 1.7" area at 50 yards with stock sights or do they have special scopes? I find it almost impossible to see something less than 2" from 150 feet away.

I've had better than perfect vision for 45+ Years of my life but lately I know I need some glasses soon but more for night time driving and up close. Sucks getting old.

[RandyD]

Call Les Baer up and ask him.

As I previously wrote, I am curious in knowing what are the differences in a 1911 that groups 1.5" and those that group 3", but I won't be making any calls to Les Baer, because I am satisfied with my custom Wilson Combat 1911.

[AFTII]

guarantee is either 1.5 inches or 3 inches at 50 yards.

The SRP is 2.5 standard.

[9mmepiphany]

I am curious in knowing what are the differences in a 1911 that groups 1.5" and those that group 3", but I won't be making any calls to Les Baer, because I am satisfied with my custom Wilson Combat 1911.

Then call Wilson and ask they what the aren't/won't do to reach a 1.5" guarantee.

I'm sure they know how and I'm sure they are as likely to tell you are Baer

[static2126]

Are these people shooting that small 1.7" area at 50 yards with stock sights or do they have special scopes? I find it almost impossible to see something less than 2" from 150 feet away.

I've had better than perfect vision for 45+ Years of my life but lately I know I need some glasses soon but more for night time driving and up close. Sucks getting old.

This is shot offhand using stock sights usually I believe

[NiteQwill]

Are these people shooting that small 1.7" area at 50 yards with stock sights or do they have special scopes? I find it almost impossible to see something less than 2" from 150 feet away.

I've had better than perfect vision for 45+ Years of my life but lately I know I need some glasses soon but more for night time driving and up close. Sucks getting old.

Bullseye matches are shot one-handed at 5.5-inch (14 cm) and 8-inch (20 cm) bullseye targets at 25 and 50 yards (23 and 46 m) using iron sights. While telescopic sights are allowed, they are very, very rare (I saw one guy use it at a Camp Pendleton match, but he was crushed by everyone shooting with traditional sights). If you have ever seen a Camp Perry shoot, 99.999% of shooters use iron sights with a serrated rear to reduce glare.

There is a big reason these shooters are the best in the country (world?) in the accuracy department.

I strongly encourage everyone to check out one of these matches. The doubts will quickly be casted aside when you see the insane accuracy of these shooters. Check the CMP and NRA website for info.

It was one of the very big reasons I chose a LB with the 1.5" guarantee. Off a ransom rest, I was able to replicate the grouping. In my hands... not soo much. I was lucky to hit the black.

[AFTII]

I have a 1.5" Premier II ("PII') Baer and standard 3" Baer Thunder Ranch ("TR"). I shoot the TR better than I shoot the 1.5" PII. It's more of a fit / grip issue than anything else. I've put so many rounds through the TR that its like a comfortable glove. The PII is new. I've only put about 200 rnds through it and it just doesn't fit me as well. Maybe in time I'll shoot it as well as the TR, but its not likely that I will be able to shoot it better. I've shot my friend's 1.5" TR back to back with one and I really couldn't tell the difference.