Technical questions 2.5" grouping vs 1.5" grouping

[Gunxy]

Les Baer offers the same model 1911 with two different groupings, 2.5" and 1.5" at 50 yards. For extra $$ you can get 1.5" guarantee at 50 yards. I'm curious how they can achieve that with the same 1911. I am guessing, the barrel inside is super smooth with highly polished chrome or something like that? Or opposite, they increase twist rate to stabilize bullet? Any other factors comes to play with tighter groupings?

[JohnCCW]

Seriously, unless you are a much better than average pistol shooter, you won't be able to tell the difference shooting offhand at reasonable pistol ranges.

But, why not get the best possible gun if you can afford it?

[Snoopy47]

Les Baer offers the same model 1911 with two different groupings, 2.5" and 1.5" at 50 yards. For extra $$ you can get 1.5" guarantee at 50 yards. I'm curious how they can achieve that with the same 1911. I am guessing, the barrel inside is super smooth with highly polished chrome or something like that? Or opposite, they increase twist rate to stabilize bullet? Any other factors comes to play with tighter groupings?

What it comes down to is all of the parts lock up the same from one shot to the next. The more precision in the build and tolerances ensure those parts have less variation in their lock up from one shot to the next.

[LeadFarmer74]

What it comes down to is all of the parts lock up the same from one shot to the next. The more precision in the build and tolerances ensure those parts have less variation in their lock up from one shot to the next.

That's a great way to describe it.

[1911whore]

guarantee is either 1.5 inches or 3 inches at 50 yards. the reality is there are a lot of pieces of information on the internet that would conjure up at least the idea that one doesn't necessarily end up shooting much better than the other if at all. reality is unless you are a world-class bullseye shooter and you are absolutely able to milk the most accuracy out of that platform then you will likely never be able to notice the difference.

[Gunxy]

I have already bought Les Baer with 1.5" groupings. It it my first 1911 and if next 1911 follow up the current Les Baer is my reference point. I came across on internet different comments about groupings which made me even more confused. That is why, I was not sure what it was engineering behind it. Snoopy47 post made a lot of sense to me. My Les Baer still breaking in (only about 300 ammo so far) and it is still hard like hell to rack the slide. It is the best gun I ever owned that is why I want to learn about it as much as I can.

[JTROKS]

Not all 45 ACP ammo will result in 3"/50-1.5"/25. You still have homework what loads she'll shoot accurately. You may even get less than 3" at 50 yards.

[9mmepiphany]

My Les Baer still breaking in (only about 300 ammo so far) and it is still hard like hell to rack the slide.

To avoid any confusion, the fits doesn't have to be that tight to obtain that level of accuracy.

I've fired a SIG X-Five that would shoot five 9mm slugs into 1.5" (actually 1.1") at 50 yards...not saying I could do it, but Mickey Fowler could...and wasn't all that tight; it didn't even have a bushing for the muzzle end of the barrel. (It did have a correctly fitted Bar-Sto barrel)

[1911whore]

Tight does not equal accurate, concise even contact with bottom lugs, snug lockup on the hood, and a well fit barrel, bushing, slide will get you the result of accuracy. I had a springer 9mm with a kart barrel that was bank vault tight in battery and the minute the barrel unlocked the gun was loose as a goose.... best of both worlds...super accurate and uber reliable.

[sirgrumps]

None of that. It's the fitting of the bushing to the barrel and the barrel to the slide. It's not worth it, unless you're a 25/50 yard bullseye guy.

^^^^^This.

Also realize, since the role
Tolerances are MUCH tighter, i.e. smaller, there is a significant increase in jamming and other failures. This is NOT critical during a bullseye match, but it's annoying at the range and even worse everywhere else.

reality is unless you are a world-class bullseye shooter and you are absolutely able to milk the most accuracy out of that platform then you will likely never be able to notice the difference.

I concur. Almost all of use won't be able to make the gun perform at its max potential.

I have already bought Les Baer with 1.5" groupings. It it my first 1911 and if next 1911 follow up the current Les Baer is my reference point. I came across on internet different comments about groupings which made me even more confused. That is why, I was not sure what it was engineering behind it. Snoopy47 post made a lot of sense to me. My Les Baer still breaking in (only about 300 ammo so far) and it is still hard like hell to rack the slide. It is the best gun I ever owned that is why I want to learn about it as much as I can.

Baer, philosophy is that the tighter the tolerances, up to down, left to right, etc, etc, is the key to accuracy. That super tight slide is similar to a 3" Baer. For the money, they should have rub some flits between the frame a slide for a while before shipping.

Tight does not equal accurate, concise even contact with bottom lugs, snug lockup on the hood, and a well fit barrel, bushing, slide will get you the result of accuracy. I had a springer 9mm with a kart barrel that was bank vault tight in battery and the minute the barrel unlocked the gun was loose as a goose.... best of both worlds...super accurate and uber reliable.

Absolutely true. It can be done without being super tight, but that is Les Baer's build philosophy.

[Litespeeds]

I think the 2.5" to 1.5" guarantee is a selling gimmick. I don't think anyone can shoot that tight of a group standing and shooting freehand at 50 yards. I can believe it's possible at 25 yards but you would need to be a damn good shooter.

It's nice to know that your gun is capable of achieving that kind of results though.

[teflondog]

For the average person, 3" at 50 yards is more than good enough. It's also a conservative guarantee. I'm willing to bet all Les Baers will shoot 2.5" or better.

[NiteQwill]

I think the 2.5" to 1.5" guarantee is a selling gimmick. I don't think anyone can shoot that tight of a group standing and shooting freehand at 50 yards. I can believe it's possible at 25 yards but you would need to be a damn good shooter.

It's nice to know that your gun is capable of achieving that kind of results though.

Sure they can. Go to any bullseye match. It'd done thousands of times.

[Snoopy47]

Sure they can. Go to any bullseye match. It'd done thousands of times.

Yep, that shooting game has been around long before all this action shooting. Many guys can hit a quarter at 50 yards 50% of the time, and an old school silver dollar 100% of the time.

[ap3572001]

Les Baer offers the same model 1911 with two different groupings, 2.5" and 1.5" at 50 yards. For extra $$ you can get 1.5" guarantee at 50 yards. I'm curious how they can achieve that with the same 1911. I am guessing, the barrel inside is super smooth with highly polished chrome or something like that? Or opposite, they increase twist rate to stabilize bullet? Any other factors comes to play with tighter groupings?

MOST people will never know the difference.

I shot PPC and Bullseye for years.

I can take a service grade quality handgun ( Beretta 92. Smith and Wesson model 19 etc) and after shooting it with several brands of ammuniton at 25 yeards off hand I can say which ammo the gun likes.

My match pistols and revolvers ALL shoot 2 inches or less at 50 years from a rest. I CAN NOT DO IT HOLDING THE GUN , BUY MANY TIMES I CAN COME VERY CLOSE. lol