Why do people delete the price when they have sold their pistol?

[Packy14]

This is rich, considering the source.

Funny thing, markets are more efficient when, surprise! there's more information, just as devious says. This is such a fundamental fact of economics, it's not even subject to debate. Go to a high-school level economics textbook, and you'll find it within the first couple of pages.

Few markets are so transparent in real life, sorry buddy.

[devious21]

No it's not. It's a PRIVATE transaction between the seller and the buyer.

Again, no one is talking about the transaction.

It's the public information, the seller has already chosen to make public, when they create their public advertisement that's posted on the public internet.

You're confusing the asking price with the details of the final sale. Those are not the same thing and the asking price is helpful to people, whether or not you're able to make use of it.

[devious21]

Few markets are so transparent in real life, sorry buddy.

You mean like cars, houses, anything you buy retail, the stock market, all common goods and even guns in any other state but California?

[meno377]

Again, no one is talking about the transaction.

It's the public information, the seller has already chosen to make public, when they create their public advertisement that's posted on the public internet.

You're confusing the asking price with the details of the final sale. Those are not the same thing and the asking price is helpful to people, whether or not you're able to make use of it.

No my point is that the public information is there until the deal is done. After that it is irrelevant whether the info is left on the post or not. If the seller chooses to delete that info, he/she is entitled to and it doesn't affect the market in a negative way what so ever.

The asking price may not be helpful as it may be inflated which is the case more often than not. The ones that are either reasonably priced or discounted are usually done deals within minutes of posting. I have seen these and have been a participant of such.

[Saym14]

I sold mine for tree fiddy

[devious21]

No my point is that the public information is there until the deal is done.

Yes, if you choose to delete, which is the issue we are discussing.

After that it is irrelevant whether the info is left on the post or not. If the seller chooses to delete that info, he/she is entitled to..

I agree

..and it doesn't affect the market in a negative way what so ever.

I disagree obviously. If someone is looking to buy an off-roster pistol, Calguns is one of the only sources for this information. If you do a search and all the information has been removed, it makes it harder to determine what the item might be worth, which would be a benefit. Loss of that benefit is a negative impact.

The asking price may not be helpful as it may be inflated which is the case more often than not. The ones that are either reasonably priced or discounted are usually done deals within minutes of posting. I have seen these and have been a participant of such.

I agree. But the alternative is no information which is obviously less helpful.

Ironically, the way to defeat and correct inflated prices or undervalued pricing (which something is if it has so much demand it sells in a matter of minutes), is with more information.

But instead, everyone will do what they do and we'll continue to deal with the wild pricing we see in the forums. Those that live in the classifieds will have an advantage with the hours they put in to gain that advantage and people like me, who run scripts to save all the info, will have an advantage. Everyone else just takes shots in the dark and does the best they can with the info they have, which is almost nothing.

[meno377]

Ironically, the way to defeat and correct inflated prices or undervalued pricing (which something is if it has so much demand it sells in a matter of minutes), is with more information.

This is where you are incorrect. Why are you stating "defeat and correct inflated prices or undervalued pricing" This is a free market. Whether someone chooses to inflate or discount a firearm for sale is not a mistake that should be corrected. It's a choice by the seller to attempt or to sell quickly an item. It's not your job or mine to "correct" an inflated or undervalued item. The market itself takes care of that.

[devious21]

This is where you are incorrect. Why are you stating "defeat and correct inflated prices or undervalued pricing" This is a free market. Whether someone chooses to inflate or discount a firearm for sale is not a mistake that should be corrected. It's a choice by the seller to attempt or to sell quickly an item. It's not your job or mine to "correct" an inflated or undervalued item. The market itself takes care of that.

You're attacking a strawman.

I didn't say a seller couldn't choose or was wrong for undervaluing their item. If they want to sell their item quickly, I agree, listing it for less than it's worth is the fastest way to sell it. That doesn't mean it's NOT listed for less than it's worth. They've simply made a calculated decision to do so.

The correction I was talking about wasn't directed at sellers making a calculated decision to undervalue their items. It was directed at those who post their items, basing their pricing on other markets, msrp, etc, and it sells too quickly (and they weren't intending to take much less than it's worth) or takes too long to sell (and they weren't intending to wait as long as possible to get the highest offer). Or buyers that pay more than something is worth (perhaps due to a false sense of urgency) or refuse to buy something because they think it may be worth less than the asking price (but have no data to actually confirm that fact).

If you have the tools available, and can make those determinations, there's no reason you shouldn't. The issue arises when you do not having the tools available. How can you know you're about to buy or sell something for high or low, with no frame of reference?

[meno377]

You're attacking a strawman.

I didn't say a seller couldn't choose or was wrong for undervaluing their item. If they want to sell their item quickly, I agree, listing it for less than it's worth is the fastest way to sell it. That doesn't mean it's NOT listed for less than it's worth. They've simply made a calculated decision to do so.

The correction I was talking about wasn't directed at sellers making a calculated decision to undervalue their items. It was directed at those who post their items, basing their pricing on other markets, msrp, etc, and it sells too quickly (and they weren't intending to take much less than it's worth) or takes too long to sell (and they weren't intending to wait as long as possible to get the highest offer). Or buyers that pay more than something is worth (perhaps due to a false sense of urgency) or refuse to buy something because they think it may be worth less than the asking price (but have no data to actually confirm that fact).

If you have the tools available, and can make those determinations, there's no reason you shouldn't. The issue is when you do not having the tools available. How can you know you've sold or bought something for high or low, with no frame of reference?

Simple. Due diligence. Being informed. There are many resources out there. You just have to do your part. If the moderators want to design an E-commerce "marketplace" they either will or have already decided not for various reasons possibly.

[devious21]

Simple. Due diligence. Being informed. There are many resources out there. You just have to do your part. If the moderators want to design an E-commerce "marketplace" they either will or have already decided not for various reasons possibly.

No there isn't. What resources are out there for off-roster guns that apply to us? What sources?

What methods are there to stay informed besides simply living in the Calgun classifieds and becoming an expert on the gun you choose to buy or sell? What should be a 5 minute search becomes a "let's monitor the sales over a few weeks/months and feel it out".

[meno377]

The reasons given may not be valid to you but they are valid to whomever gave the reason. It does not matter if you think it's a valid reason as long as it makes sense to the person giving it. That being said, I'd like to see an index of prices for what things went for just for historical reasons so we can compare the spikes and dips to various periods of the year and various events happening in the world.

If CG wanted to create a database that allows its members to access the average price over a given timeline for a particular model firearm, I would be into that for sure. It just doesn't need to be attached to any sales post.

[devious21]

The reasons given may not be valid to you but they are valid to whomever gave the reason.

I agree. And one of the main goals of debate and reasoned argument is to evaluate the reasoning and logic behind those views, so the parties, and others, can draw more informed conclusions to which are more valid to them.

That being said, I'd like to see an index of prices for what things went for just for historical reasons so we can compare the spikes and dips to various periods of the year and various events happening in the world.

I agree. I think both short-term (weeks and months) data, to better inform sales and purchases, as well as historical data (months and years) to see trends and fluctuations would all be valuable.

If sellers say that they don't want to leave up that info for whatever reason, because they aren't comfortable with their information sitting there, or are OCD about left over threads, or want to ward off potential futures buyers that can't read, then that's totally fine. I think those reasons have varying degrees of merit, but no one is telling them they can't, including me.

But for those stomping their feet and insisting that market data isn't valuable to the market, is kind of borderline crazy stubbornness. It's even crazier in our unique situation where we are essentially starved for any other data, since none of it applies to our market.

[meno377]

No there isn't. What resources are out there for off-roster guns that apply to us? What sources?

What methods are there to stay informed besides simply living in the Calgun classifieds and becoming an expert on the gun you choose to buy or sell? What should be a 5 minute search becomes a "let's monitor the sales over a few weeks/months and feel it out".

armslist, gunbroker, gunlistings.org, gunauction.com, gunsamerica, gunrunnerauctions, fugatefirearms.com

[devious21]

armslist, gunbroker, gunlistings.org, gunauction.com, gunsamerica, gunrunnerauctions, fugatefirearms.com

These all work fine for guns on the roster. For off-roster items, none of those have any valuable information for us (with the exception of armslist, which I mentioned earlier, is less than completely useless but still terrible).

You can look up a Glock 43 on those sites and it will give you a price that has no relation to our market whatsoever and in a transaction that none of us here can take part in. People have to understand that the combination of the Roster and 10 day waits have created something like a black market for us, that doesn't apply anywhere else.

If you wanted to gauge how much Cuban Cigars go for in America, how do you go about finding their pricing? You could check the price in Cuba, but they are obviously going to be more expensive than that. You can check the prices in Canada or Mexico, and although those are higher than Cuba, they still don't give us an accurate reading of what someone would pay for one in America, where they are illegal and there is plenty of demand but no supply.

Off-roster is similar to Cuban Cigars in that there's extremely restricted supply, high demand, and no easy way to gauge their value. At least without simply buying or selling frequently and learning the hard way, which also may explain why those who sell frequently are hesitant to make that information readily available.

[DNA]

I delete prices to piss off people so that they can start incredibly long threads about.

If you really need to know the price of something, before buying or selling, just troll the market place for a week or two. It's simple as long as you have patience.

Dan