Wilson Combat CQB

[whiskey.t.foxtrot]

Hi all-

I've finally decided to buy a Wilson Combat. The ones that are available around me (NorCal) are the CQB and the Tactical Elite.

A much as I like the TE, I'm not sure I like the flanged cone barrel. (Opinions welcome on this.)

So I'm thinking of buying a CQB. I've shot it plenty of times and I like it.

Here are my questions:

Looks like non-CA CQBs are significantly different from the CA ones.

Here is the non-CA:

http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-cqb.asp#.VSFn9vnF98E

The grips and sights are different from what I see in stores here. I know there are other differences, such as titanium firing pins, or some such. And of course the color (green/black in CA).

Does anybody know what the differences are, exactly?

Also, do I understand correctly that once I have the gun I can send it back to Wilson Combat (or any other custom shop) and have anything I want done to it?

Thanks a lot for any info.

[SVTNate]

I have several Wilson Combat 1911's, but none of them are CA-approved.

I am sure that if you buy a CA-approved WC 1911, there are some parts that are Wilson's older, non-Bulletproof parts. Namely, the thumb safety, and the magwell (if you order a CA-approved gun that comes with one). You won't get the new 1-piece Bullet Proof magwell with a CA gun, and you won't get the Bullet Proof ambi safety either.

The frames, slides, barrels, and majority of parts are the same. You just have to take the gun with whatever finish WC offers for CA, and you can't order the gun with a naked slide or different slide markings.

I am unsure whether CA guns come with the old fixed rear sights, or the newer u-notch Battlesights. On a CQB or TE, anyway.

You can send a CA-approved gun back to WC for custom work. They can do a lot of their custom options "after the fact", such as French borders, heavy machine chamfer on the frame, ball cut slide, solid trigger, different hammer, fluted chamber, serrations on the top or rear of slide, etc.

You will not be able to blue a gun that previously had Armor-Tuff applied.

IIRC Wilson Combat is running about 6 months on custom 1911 work. You can request a work order via Customer Service, and they'll email you paperwork to include with your gun when you send it out.

[jpm804]

Also to add what SVTNate said, here is the differences of the ca models from a 1911 forum thread from the Wilson combat rep there

http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=5219088&postcount=8

Also you get the old sights and not the new battle sights.

Also before Wilson would not blue a gun that was AT (armor tough - their paint name) but now thye do offer that as an option it's pricey since more labor intensive and still not encouraged by them but now is at least at option.

I have several Wilson Combat 1911's, but none of them are CA-approved.

I am sure that if you buy a CA-approved WC 1911, there are some parts that are Wilson's older, non-Bulletproof parts. Namely, the thumb safety, and the magwell (if you order a CA-approved gun that comes with one). You won't get the new 1-piece Bullet Proof magwell with a CA gun, and you won't get the Bullet Proof ambi safety either.

The frames, slides, barrels, and majority of parts are the same. You just have to take the gun with whatever finish WC offers for CA, and you can't order the gun with a naked slide or different slide markings.

I am unsure whether CA guns come with the old fixed rear sights, or the newer u-notch Battlesights. On a CQB or TE, anyway.

You can send a CA-approved gun back to WC for custom work. They can do a lot of their custom options "after the fact", such as French borders, heavy machine chamfer on the frame, ball cut slide, solid trigger, different hammer, fluted chamber, serrations on the top or rear of slide, etc.

You will not be able to blue a gun that previously had Armor-Tuff applied.

IIRC Wilson Combat is running about 6 months on custom 1911 work. You can request a work order via Customer Service, and they'll email you paperwork to include with your gun when you send it out.

[whiskey.t.foxtrot]

http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=5219088&postcount=8

Thanks you jpm804 and SVTNate, that was useful.

I suppose I could get a CA-compliant gun and slowly upgrade. Grips, safety, mag catch, sights, all can be changed (at a price).

The one-piece magwell may be a little harder? It needs to be fitted.

Nothing I can do about markings and the front serration I'm afraid.

I assume that the CA-compliant CQB has Armor-Tough applied by default?

Thanks again.

[jpm804]

Thanks you jpm804 and SVTNate, that was useful.

I suppose I could get a CA-compliant gun and slowly upgrade. Grips, safety, mag catch, sights, all can be changed (at a price).

The one-piece magwell may be a little harder? It needs to be fitted.

Nothing I can do about markings and the front serration I'm afraid.

I assume that the CA-compliant CQB has Armor-Tough applied by default?

Thanks again.

Correct, you could changed out all the CA parts over time ...

Correct, you will need the one piece magwell fitted. I do like the one piece magwell over the older magwell.

You can have them build out a whole new slide but once again an added cost to the gun but can be done.

Correct, AT will be applied by default. The full size cqb will have the black slide and green frame. The new green they are using is a lot darker then before and almost looks black in some pics. You can also have it reprinted all black if you want later also.

[Footballgenius]

This agrees with the info that I was given from their customer support in January. See email below. Personally I can't see spending that kind of cash and not getting the best product they can make. I am just continuing to look for a 49 state model. Hopefully I can find and PPT one this summer. If not, I will have Infinity Firearms cook something up for me.

(Wilson Combat Support)

Jan 26, 10:13

Hello, The CA Approved is slightly different then the standard 49 state legal Tac Elite. The differences are the thumb and grips safeties, and the sights. While all of our other pistols have non-cast parts installed stock, the safeties on all CA models are cast. The sights are the older style combat pyramid sights. While the safeties are cast, they are fully covered against malfunction for life. If they should fail due to being cast, we will replace them for free. The dealer who I am most familiar with is Fowler Gun Room, in Orange. Their number is (714) 771-3730. Thank you and if you need anything else, please let me know.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Customer Service Specialist
1-(800) 955-4856 Ext. 120
Fax: 1-870-545-3310

[davidwow]

This agrees with the info that I was given from their customer support in January. See email below. Personally I can't see spending that kind of cash and not getting the best product they can make. I am just continuing to look for a 49 state model. Hopefully I can find and PPT one this summer. If not, I will have Infinity Firearms cook something up for me.

(Wilson Combat Support)

Jan 26, 10:13

Hello, The CA Approved is slightly different then the standard 49 state legal Tac Elite. The differences are the thumb and grips safeties, and the sights. While all of our other pistols have non-cast parts installed stock, the safeties on all CA models are cast. The sights are the older style combat pyramid sights. While the safeties are cast, they are fully covered against malfunction for life. If they should fail due to being cast, we will replace them for free. The dealer who I am most familiar with is Fowler Gun Room, in Orange. Their number is (714) 771-3730. Thank you and if you need anything else, please let me know.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Customer Service Specialist
1-(800) 955-4856 Ext. 120
Fax: 1-870-545-3310

Yeah even their supergrades have this issue... so not worth it being in CA. I would definitely prefer Nighthawk (no cast), Or Ed Brown, (no cast), Or springfield Pro (two mim but who cares, still 600 dollars cheaper).

Its really a shame. Even Dan Wesson has no MIM or cast parts I believe. A DAN WESSON. Granted not nearly as refined, but I sure bet I could spend an addiitonal 600 dollars by sending one to alchemy custom to do some work on it. And still be 700 dollars cheaper.

UGH. *** edit, my mistake les baer has cast parts too.

[whiskey.t.foxtrot]

I hate California's government.

[whiskey.t.foxtrot]

Now I wonder...

Is Nighthawk a better value than Wilson Combat in California?

[whiskey.t.foxtrot]

The amount of talk about MIM is mostly by collectors who don't know what else to talk about. The grip safety is a no load part. It doesn't matter as long as it's a quality part and fitted well. I've broken a Bulletproof part on my Wilson.

Don't worry about the metal composition of your gun. Get the CA legal CQB. It will serve you for the rest of your life. Take some shooting classes, shoot some matches.

Yes, of course, I agree.

But when you buy a $3000+ gun you want to make sure it's a reasonably good investment. If I decide to sell it in three months I don't want to lose too much money.

So if the vast majority of people value non-MIM parts, then I'd rather have non-MIM parts, even if the majority of people are irrational about it.

Also, it is quite annoying that the prices don't reflect quality of parts, but rather reflect artificially induced scarcity. Those %#$* CA gun laws only make it harder for us to have what we want at fair market prices, and do virtually nothing for what they ostensibly are for, i.e. reduce crime or improve safety.

So to me, getting the right parts is also a small way to express my disdain for CA's government.

[whiskey.t.foxtrot]

A Wilson will always sell for more than most others. My Nighthawk had a MIM grip safety. What makes a 1911 great is the skill of the builder, not the composition of the metal.

Good point on the resale value of a Wilson Combat. Even with MIM parts, a Wilson is a Wilson.

[davidwow]

A Wilson will always sell for more than most others. My Nighthawk had a MIM grip safety. What makes a 1911 great is the skill of the builder, not the composition of the metal.

How old is that Nighthawk? And you are correct, Wilson definitely has a better resale than Nighthawk.

[Xrslug]

Good point on the resale value of a Wilson Combat. Even with MIM parts, a Wilson is a Wilson.

And just to be clear -- to my understanding the current CA-approved Wilson's don't have any MIM parts, they do have a small number of cast parts (as opposed to machined from bar stock, as with the current WC Bulletproof parts). Many highly-regarded 1911 parts manufacturers (e.g. Caspian and Cylinder & Slide) make cast parts. Not starting a debate regarding MIM vs. cast vs. bar stock, just putting this out there as info. As with most everything else (including MIM), cast can be good or bad depending on the quality of the supplier.

[nahpungnome]

Yeah even their supergrades have this issue... so not worth it being in CA. I would definitely prefer Nighthawk (no cast), Or Ed Brown, (no cast), Or Les Baer (no cast), Or springfield Pro (two mim but who cares, still 600 dollars cheaper).

Its really a shame. Even Dan Wesson has no MIM or cast parts I believe. A DAN WESSON. Granted not nearly as refined, but I sure bet I could spend an addiitonal 600 dollars by sending one to alchemy custom to do some work on it. And still be 700 dollars cheaper.

UGH.

Baers have cast parts.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=334380

[SimonBirch]

Now I wonder...

Is Nighthawk a better value than Wilson Combat in California?

IMO yup! I'm not bias and don't get me wrong I think I will get a wilson one day. I just think NHC is a bit better