how to check if it's HOT? (Stolen)

[Condorguns]

There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread about both LEO's and FFL's.

Years ago you were able to have your LE buddy run numbers for you. In 99% of departments now this is not possible. Access to the computer systems is all logged now and if an officer is found to be requesting information not related to an active case they can be in a lot of trouble. Because this system was abused by a few it is now under tight control.

For the FFL question. First as a FFL we want nothing to do with the money part of a PPT. This is a contract between you and the seller, we are only providing a background check and storage service. If you get us involved with the money in any way we are required by California to collect sales tax on the sale. We don't want to do this, it's a pain in the behind and no one is happy after but the state.

[cbright1]

I know it isn't ca, but it is a law enforcement agency and it would appear to be standard practice to ask law enforcement to run a serial number.

http://www.juneaupolice.com/viewindividualdispatch.php?UID=2121

[P5Ret]

Now you are going to use, information where face to face sales without using a dealer are legal to support your point? What may be common in other state's really has no bearing on DOJ's regulations for release or access to information accessed through CLETS. As was pointed out quite well, in the past it was done, and abused by some. DOJ put a tight controls on it several years ago, just like DMV did with requests for driver's license, and vehicle registration information to the public. It wasn't too long ago anyone could get info from DMV by filling out a form and paying the fee, good luck with that now.

[cbright1]

Now you are going to use, information where face to face sales without using a dealer are legal to support your point? What may be common in other state's really has no bearing on DOJ's regulations for release or access to information accessed through CLETS. As was pointed out quite well, in the past it was done, and abused by some. DOJ put a tight controls on it several years ago, just like DMV did with requests for driver's license, and vehicle registration information to the public. It wasn't too long ago anyone could get info from DMV by filling out a form and paying the fee, good luck with that now.

ok, ok....I think this thread has run it's course. Just curious though, what would a law enforcement officer do if he were purchasing a used firearm? if he ran the numbers that would be for personal use and I assume also against policy.

[cbright1]

Now you are going to use, information where face to face sales without using a dealer are legal to support your point? What may be common in other state's really has no bearing on DOJ's regulations for release or access to information accessed through CLETS. As was pointed out quite well, in the past it was done, and abused by some. DOJ put a tight controls on it several years ago, just like DMV did with requests for driver's license, and vehicle registration information to the public. It wasn't too long ago anyone could get info from DMV by filling out a form and paying the fee, good luck with that now.

I was just pointing out that asking a LE agency to check numbers prior to it being a sale or a current case is not that far fetched. It may not be done here, now, but it once was done here otherwise there wouldn't be a policy against it.

[Condorguns]

ok, ok....I think this thread has run it's course. Just curious though, what would a law enforcement officer do if he were purchasing a used firearm? if he ran the numbers that would be for personal use and I assume also against policy.

You assume correctly.

[Killer Bee]

it's not every patrol officers assigned duty to take it upon themselves to investigate everything they are notified of.. in the interest of public safety, naturally they are duty bound to respond, but that does not mean they take full and sole responsibility for each and every investigation just because it was reported to them.. most department policies and sops outline the divisions of the duties and responsibilities of each officer based on their billet in the dept.

for instance, a traffic cop wouldn't start a murder investigation just because someone reported a dead body to them..

researching a firearm serial number, in essence, is researching the owner and bears with it, the responsibility of protecting their privacy within the law..

a dispatch line or sergeants line that, by dept. policy, accepts inquiries of this nature are conducted by the authorization of the policy makers of that dept. and thereby conducted under law..

every time a database user logs in, their activity is logged.. if for any reason the information revealed becomes the subject of an audit, a complaint, or an accusation of misuse, that database user better have good reason for accessing it..

here's a couple of quick search results of misuse..

Fairfield cops under investigation for possible database checks on potential dates

California cops checked love interests found on Tinder, Match.com for criminal records: report

DA charges 911 dispatcher with illegal use of criminal information

here's a copy of the CLETS user agreement..

[tbloesch]

If asked to run a check for stolen firearm, most leo's would think you're trying to make a purchase without using an ffl. Let the dros do its job to determine if it's stolen.

[cbright1]

it's not every patrol officers assigned duty to take it upon themselves to investigate everything they are notified of.. in the interest of public safety, naturally they are duty bound to respond, but that does not mean they take full and sole responsibility for each and every investigation just because it was reported to them.. most department policies and sops outline the divisions of the duties and responsibilities of each officer based on their billet in the dept.

for instance, a traffic cop wouldn't start a murder investigation just because someone reported a dead body to them..

researching a firearm serial number, in essence, is researching the owner and bears with it, the responsibility of protecting their privacy within the law..

a dispatch line or sergeants line that, by dept. policy, accepts inquiries of this nature are conducted by the authorization of the policy makers of that dept. and thereby conducted under law..

every time a database user logs in, their activity is logged.. if for any reason the information revealed becomes the subject of an audit, a complaint, or an accusation of misuse, that database user better have good reason for accessing it..

here's a couple of quick search results of misuse..

Fairfield cops under investigation for possible database checks on potential dates

California cops checked love interests found on Tinder, Match.com for criminal records: report

DA charges 911 dispatcher with illegal use of criminal information

here's a copy of the CLETS user agreement..

Seriously????? You are going to compaire the use of official resources to go to dating websites to checking to see if a firearm is stolen? what a cop must do if given reason to check into something and what a cop may do, are 2 different things. I seriously doubt a cop would have trouble explaining to an auditor why he did a search on a firearm. It would seem to me to be perfectly within a LEO duties and even if it wasn't, the auditor would have to have a lot more that just a s/n search.

[static2126]

Dude let it go. Most LEO's do not run background checks before buying used.

[TheShagg]

What idiot seller would have a stolen gun, give it to an FFL with their ID to run 10 day check on it?

I feel like 95% of criminals are smarter than that.

Maybe they have a fake ID, but I think they would much rather unload it on the black market.

[cbright1]

Dude let it go. Most LEO's do not run background checks before buying used.

I get that, but the other poster was literally using stories that dealt with using the data base to check out women online etc....If I get arguments about that being the same thing, thats rediculous. Just to recap, there were 2 posters that said they asked and were obliged. I showed an out of state LE site that confirmed they do it, and the other poster showed how it is against policy to check out dating sites on the data base. Yup, that makes sense.

[sealocan]

I have one question and I hope someone who absolutely knows the real answer could help.

IF in another state, possibly far or near but away from California, any law enforcement agency checks to see if a firearm is stolen, that records check would be able to cross reference any records in California as well as that state, federally and every other state in the Union is records?

they're all linked correct?

( I ask this not because I know someone to call but because I know in different parts of the country citizens asking for help or information from the police are treated dramatically different.)

you know in some parts of the country when you call in with this type of called they actually think:

" this guys calling the police, he's probably a good guy and he's asking to check a firearm he's probably trying to get a stolen gun off the street"
because simple logic dictates that a average criminal probably wouldn't be calling the police for enquiries about stolen items."






***
and for anyone who doesn't get why the police make you do the DROS to find out if its stolen.
if everyone could just call in and ask them 2 things would be a problem for THEM.

number one, they would get lots of calls when they're already busy with real crimes.

number two, and the reason they tell people..IF people called in and the cops told him the gun was stolen the cops would not necessarily get that gun confiscated...
but during a DROS if it comes up stolen, they get the gun for sure even if the criminal gets away.

[cbright1]

What idiot seller would have a stolen gun, give it to an FFL with their ID to run 10 day check on it?

I feel like 95% of criminals are smarter than that.

Maybe they have a fake ID, but I think they would much rather unload it on the black market.

On the black market, items are sold at a discount. On a PPT, it's full price and cash. Even the pawn shop is only going to give 50% of value. Criminals are not that smart. Thats why they go to jail over and over again. Fake id's are pretty common. Most people, and I mean most, don;t have the correct address on their id anyway. Most idiot criminals don't even live at the same place for more than 6 months. I know it is a long shot, but I am sure it has happened.

[Condorguns]

I have one question and I hope someone who absolutely knows the real answer could help.

IF in another state, possibly far or near but away from California, any law enforcement agency checks to see if a firearm is stolen, that records check would be able to cross reference any records in California as well as that state, federally and every other state in the Union is records?

they're all linked correct?

( I ask this not because I know someone to call but because I know in different parts of the country citizens asking for help or information from the police are treated dramatically different.)

you know in some parts of the country when you call in with this type of called they actually think:

" this guys calling the police, he's probably a good guy and he's asking to check a firearm he's probably trying to get a stolen gun off the street"
because simple logic dictates that a average criminal probably wouldn't be calling the police for enquiries about stolen items."






***
and for anyone who doesn't get why the police make you do the DROS to find out if its stolen.
if everyone could just call in and ask them 2 things would be a problem for THEM.

number one, they would get lots of calls when they're already busy with real crimes.

number two, and the reason they tell people..IF people called in and the cops told him the gun was stolen the cops would not necessarily get that gun confiscated...
but during a DROS if it comes up stolen, they get the gun for sure even if the criminal gets away.

Yes the databases are linked.