Taurus Judge

[elk hunter]

Just curious, was the Taurus Judge .45 Colt .410 ever legal in California. I've been reading up on some of the pistols/revolvers that are not legal to own in California and this one is very interesting to me in that BATF classifies it as a revolver and California classifies it as a shotgun.

elk hunter

[duckman1]

I don't think it was ever legal in the .410 version. I have friends with .454 C Judges and I've seen the .410 version nice gun, it would definitely put an end to your problem.

[elk hunter]

duckman1, I bought one of the regular .45 Colt/.410 "years" ago took it to the range and shot it. I didn't like it, it was awkward. Even being awkward as it is I can see it would be a very useful revolver for snakes and game. I'm having a hard time getting into the logic California uses on this pistol, BATF says it's a revolver but California says it's a short shotgun, logic would say to go with the BATF as they have more experience and expertise on this.

[Quiet]

During the 1980s, CA SBS laws were changed so that it included any firearm with a less than 18" barrel that fired shotgun shells.
This banned handguns chambered in .45Colt/.410.
Friend had to sell his 10" barrel chambered in .45Colt/.410 for his Thompson Center Contender, in order to comply with this.

CA laws can classify handguns as SBR/SBS. [PC 16640(b)]
CA SBS laws can classify firearms that were never shotguns as SBS. [PC 17180(a) & (b)]
So, even though a handgun chambered in .45Colt/.410 does not meet the legal definition of a shotgun under CA laws, it still meets the legal definition of a SBS under CA laws.

Taurus began production of the Judge in 2010.
So, the Taurus Judge chambered in .45Colt/.410 were never legal in CA.
The Taurus Judge is just a refined clone of the MIL Inc Thunder Five.

The MIL Inc Thunder Five was made from 1992-1998.
They were typically chambered in 45Colt/.410, but a few were made in .45/70.
The MIL Inc Thunder Five chambered in .45/70 are CA legal.



Penal Code 16640
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun" from also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun.

Penal Code 17180
As used in this part, "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(a) A firearm that is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and has a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(b) A firearm that has an overall length of less than 26 inches and that is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(c) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Penal Code 17190
As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16870, and 17180, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, Section 30215, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.

[elk hunter]

So it sounds like there is 2 Calif. laws governing shotguns and what constitutes a shotgun definition in California. One to define a shotgun as we traditionally (BATF) define it and one separate law to define what a short barrel shotgun is. Of course that is a simplistic and short explanation of the 2 laws. Which for me still doesn't 1. fit BATF and their definition of either firearm and 2. doesn't make any sense. But still a interesting subject. If I have this wrong please correct me.

[Click Boom]

Clay launcher + Judge = awesome

[gixer1k]

You can get them as an AOW in CA. 2A Zone / Baboosh in commercial sales section offers them. I am thinking between the judge and the governor.

[PseudoTsuga]

Excuse my ignorance, but won't a .410 chamber into any .45 lc?

[elk hunter]

Excuse my ignorance, but won't a .410 chamber into any .45 lc?

No sir, I believe it would be the other way around a .45 Colt into a .410 chamber.

[elk hunter]

You can get them as an AOW in CA. 2A Zone / Baboosh in commercial sales section offers them. I am thinking between the judge and the governor.

Isn't the Gov. a S&W pistol? You must not be in California if you can buy one that is .45 Colt/.410.

[mnichols]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=15898785#post15898785

[ke6guj]

Excuse my ignorance, but won't a .410 chamber into any .45 lc?

nope, a true .45LC chamber will not chamber a .410 round. it takes a little extra reaming to allow a .410 round to fit. I do not know if true .410 chambers will accept .45LC

Isn't the Gov. a S&W pistol? You must not be in California if you can buy one that is .45 Colt/.410.

the S&W Gov is .45LC/.410/.45ACP (with moonclips). if registered as an AOW, they are legal in CA.

[Baboosh]

No sir, I believe it would be the other way around a .45 Colt into a .410 chamber.

In order to fire a 45LC you need to make sure the barrel is rated for the pressure of that round. Do not shoot a 45LC out of a 410 shotgun.

[P5Ret]

I'm having a hard time getting into the logic California uses on this pistol, BATF says it's a revolver but California says it's a short shotgun, logic would say to go with the BATF as they have more experience and expertise on this.

Your having a hard time with it because you expect logic or expertise to actually account for something. This is not the case when legislator's or political appointee's make laws or regulations about something they know absolutely nothing about. As is the case in California/Washington D.C. more often than not.

[titan2]

Just curious, was the Taurus Judge .45 Colt .410 ever legal in California. I've been reading up on some of the pistols/revolvers that are not legal to own in California and this one is very interesting to me in that BATF classifies it as a revolver and California classifies it as a shotgun.

elk hunter

Nope....out here, it's a SBS...a no no