How many times have you drawn your firearm in self defense?

[Decoligny]

This will be my last response I will walk away and be the bigger man after saying this.

ANYTIME you pull your weapon regardless of the situation you commit a crime until a court clears you for "self defense".

Which we know you are NOT asking for, therefore you are asking people to admit to a crime genius

I see we have a strong proponent of the GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT system of jurisprudence.

[wpod]

Being on my phone, I can't see the polls.
No CCW here, but, I've had other people will ill-intent point guns at me on 3 occasions. I was unarmed each time.
If I had been armed what should I have done?

Sent from my VS950 4G using Tapatalk

[Excelsior]

I see we have a strong proponent of the GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT system of jurisprudence.

That, or perhaps simply a bad case of confusion.

[Excelsior]

Being on my phone, I can't see the polls.
No CCW here, but, I've had other people will ill-intent point guns at me on 3 occasions. I was unarmed each time.
If I had been armed what should I have done?

Sent from my VS950 4G using Tapatalk

Whoa!

Only you could have made the decision had you been armed at the time the incidents happened.

[The Gleam]

They can range from FBI crime stats, to local crime stats, to personal experiences, to "experts'" beliefs to friends' beliefs, etc. etc. This poll has already upheld a data point that I expected, obviously in the most anecdotal of ways.

What do I want to achieve? Data.

That's rich, coming from a known anti-gun troll who starts polls to find out what people carry, how they carry it and what other weapons they have on them.

Entirely. Keep in mind, if you were a marketing company or in-house marketing hack for the Brady Campaign, Violence Policy Center, or MAIG (or any among the quiver of others) as is quite likely the case here and highly probable with "Excelsior", San Francisco - it makes no difference as to whom it is that you poll, nor where your responders are sourced; they can be a random phone call, a person stopped on the street, or a singly labeled (username) identifiable anonymous "individual" on the internet - YOU.

It all counts to your paying Anti-2nd Amendment organization client so long as you can show the replies did not come from you alone and were third-party.

So if you take into consideration all of these left-leaning, gun control-requesting polls disguised as "responsible" or "common sense" approaches to gun ownership, or those pumping for information to use as fodder to villify gun ownership such as this one, you realize you just very well may be putting your foot into a trap just by replying to "Excelsior", San Francisco's silly diatribes and wishful thinking toward getting stats and opinion on controlling who has guns, how "control" is perceived by gun owners, and what may be considered as "allowable" gun control by gun owners - which is all ammunition for organizations like the Brady Campaign, the VPC , or MAIG to draw a plan of attack.

If the above is the case, as it seems to be when all of his prior threads/posts and polls are considered, you are not only providing him with the demographically-backed source material he needs to complete his task-managing for such Anti-2nd Amendment agencies, but you are in fact, providing it for free - all at the expense of Calguns.

One might even hypothesize that to keep the ball rolling and the free answers coming in, he then takes an irrational devil's advocate line of query, to engage you in a controversial train of posts, just to keep you engaged and sink a hook in you for broader explanation to use, and for hopefully reeling in others...

...for MORE free demographically-backed source material.

Don't be surprised if such "polled" answers and replies here on Calguns end up on a statistics-chart or graphic on any number of Anti-2nd Amendment organizations' websites, which will surely cause you to complain, as they are likely rigged despite the true answers - because they can "selectively" choose which answers to report, and "discount" the others as non-credible.

The best way to handle "Excelsior", San Francisco's polls?

Ignore them entirely, along with "Excelsior", San Francisco.


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[Sleighter]

Pure bovine scatology.

You couldn't be more wrong. I'll just leave this here, since it's presented by an actual attorney, as compared to the OP:

Here's an interesting article by another attorney discussing the importance of reporting an incident.

We ought to remember that the threat of deadly force, i. e., drawing your gun and pointing it at someone, is always prima facie (on its face) a criminal act. If you have drawn your gun in what you believe is self defense you will avoid criminal responsibility by establishing that your threat of deadly force was legally justified.

The usual definition of assault, based on the Common Law is:

an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

In the laws of some States this crime might be given another name. For example, in some States it's called "menacing." But by whatever name it is called, it is a crime in every State. So a display of a firearm or telling someone you have a gun, when done for the purposes of intimidation, to secure his compliance, or to keep him from attacking you is, in all States, an assault of some type. You are effectively putting someone in fear of an imminent harmful or offensive contact, i. e., getting shot. Now in all States it will be a defense against a charge of assault (or any similar crime) if you establish that your assault satisfied the applicable legal standard for justification.
...

So, you could most definitely be arrested for PC 417 and then be acquitted based on the "self-defense" exemption, but that you were acting in self-defense is not an automatic "get out of jail free card", rather it's an issue of fact that a jury decides. So just because you won't be found guilty doesn't mean you haven't committed a prima facie crime resulting in your arrest.

So, the only bovine scatology is what you're spreading around.

[Excelsior]

There is no legitimate reason to ever post this information on the internet. OP, what are you hoping to achieve with this thread?

It also helps to point out FUD such as that offered in posting #26 of this thread.

[Deal]

FIF

[Excelsior]

You couldn't be more wrong. I'll just leave this here, since it's presented by an actual attorney, as compared to the OP:

So, you could most definitely be arrested for PC 417 and then be acquitted based on the "self-defense" exemption, but that you were acting in self-defense is not an automatic "get out of jail free card", rather it's an issue of fact that a jury decides. So just because you won't be found guilty doesn't mean you haven't committed a prima facie crime resulting in your arrest.

So, the only bovine scatology is what you're spreading around.

"Could." Indeed. That's not what the FUD-spewer posted however.

[Sleighter]

It also helps to point out FUD such as that offered in posting #26 of this thread.

Actually if you look at my post #37, you'll see that it corroborates post #26 and the only FUD going around is yours, without any evidence or proof I might add.

[pastureofmuppets]

I think 38 posts and no one answering the question is a pretty good indictor that this stuff is generally unwelcome.

It's also common knowledge that it's pretty rare for a number of good reasons for citizens to have to draw.

[Excelsior]

Actually if you look at my post #37, you'll see that it corroborates post #26 and the only FUD going around is yours, without any evidence or proof I might add.

Pure poppycock. Rf. posting #25.

[Sleighter]

Pure poppycock. Rf. posting #25.

So your 2nd hand story from a CCW instructor trumps an attorney with over 20 years experience how? It's not like CCW instructors have EVER given bad advice or simply blown smoke....ha.

[Sleighter]

And since we're accepting 2nd hand stories for some reason, I found 2 of my own:
#1

Even in my CCW class the LEO's agreed that there would be instances where you might draw, and yet not shoot. But, they emphasized that drawing should be close to a "last resort", to avoid a charge of brandishing, or worse. Drawing your weapon is a pretty serious decision, and not one to be taken lightly; but shooting it has even more potentially-bad consequences for you, not to mention the other party.

#2

Some friends and I were in Santa Cruz when we got attacked by a gang. One guy on our side had a .357 and took it out. The bad guys scattered.

He was arrested for brandishing a weapon. The cops said had he shot it would have been self defense and over and done with.

Was he charged and convicted?

I'll take a ride in a police car over one in a hearse.

He was charged, got a good lawyer, and was not convicted. He had to sell his gun, stereo, and his car to pay the lawyer, and he lost his job because he was in jail until bail could be arranged. Had he shot a gang member in Santa Cruz at night he'd get a medal!

[baggss]

What do I want to achieve? Data.

Now that we know what you are after we can all just lie and skew the figures. Thanks.