Process question.

[Plain Old Dave]

I'm seeing a lot of reference to unfamiliar terms in this forum, and am curious as to how the CA procedure works. How it works here:

Take 8 hour class and shoot, unless you are a military member or Veteran with specific firearms training as called out on DD214

Pay fee, $68 IIRC for Veterans, graduated for others, fingerprints, and paperwork at TN Dept of Safety and Homeland Security office.

Wait usually @6 weeks.

Unless disqualified, receive permit.

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[LeadFarmer74]

I'm seeing a lot of reference to unfamiliar terms in this forum, and am curious as to how the CA procedure works. How it works here:

Take 8 hour class and shoot, unless you are a military member or Veteran with specific firearms training as called out on DD214

Pay fee, $68 IIRC for Veterans, graduated for others, fingerprints, and paperwork at TN Dept of Safety and Homeland Security office.

Wait usually @6 weeks.

Unless disqualified, receive permit.

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Basically the same but wait is 4 months to a year.

[Plain Old Dave]

Clarification: Local jurisdictions are only involved as far as fingerprints go. A TN carry permit is an exclusively State process; local authorities have no input.

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[Dvrjon]

Clarification: Local jurisdictions are only involved as far as fingerprints go. A TN carry permit is an exclusively State process; local authorities have no input.

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California CCW statutes delegate authority for issuance to Chief Law Enforcement officers of Counties (58 Sheriffs) and Cities (Chiefs of Police). We generally refer to them as "Issuing Authorities" (IA)

The authority to issue is defined as "may issue", meaning each Issuing Authority (IA) can make their own decision to issue or not, and within broad parameters, can place conditions and restrictions on the decision to issue and on the actual carry of the weapon.

There is a standard, state-wide application, and local authorities set local procedures for application. All require LiveScan (electronic fingerprinting) submitted to the Department of Justice (DOJ) for review by FBI and State law enforcement. Returns on the LiveScan are required for issuance and are taking close to six months today.

Application fees are set by the DOJ and statute and are paid to the IA.

IAs can specify training, and some conduct their own while others allow contract entities to provide training. Costs of training vary, but training for initial issue shall not exceed 16 hours, and may or may not include firing.

Once issued, the license is good for carry throughout all of California. Over-arching state statutes govern the carry of the weapon and general restrictions on carrying even a CCW licensed firearm (examples: State Capitol Building; Governor's Mansion; School Yards). Local jurisdictions still have some ability to further constrain the carry of the firearm, so long as it does not contravene the state authority.

Since there are so many different IAs, issuance of licenses around the state is uneven, ranging from virtually "zero issue" (City and County of San Francisco have 4) to virtual "shall issue" (Orange County has over 8,000; Sacramento over 7,000).

Any change in the leadership of law enforcement can cause a change in the policy of issuance.

Here's the basic statute for fun reading: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa....&article=

And here's a shorter FAQ on the subject: https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/carry/faqs/

That's the nutshell.

Enjoy the freedom of Tennessee.

[Plain Old Dave]

California CCW statutes delegate authority for issuance to Chief Law Enforcement officers of Counties (58 Sheriffs) and Cities (Chiefs of Police). We generally refer to them as "Issuing Authorities" (IA)

The authority to issue is defined as "may issue", meaning each Issuing Authority (IA) can make their own decision to issue or not, and within broad parameters, can place conditions and restrictions on the decision to issue and on the actual carry of the weapon.

As I said, the process here is exclusively through the State. Local authorities' only involvement is if an applicant chooses to get fingerprinted there.

There is a standard, state-wide application, and local authorities set local procedures for application. All require LiveScan (electronic fingerprinting) submitted to the Department of Justice (DOJ) for review by FBI and State law enforcement. Returns on the LiveScan are required for issuance and are taking close to six months today.

We have a standard app, but it's processed through standalone driver's license offices. AFAIK the fingerprints have to be ink, as the State doesn't have the LiveScan system. We don't have a DMV; driving licenses are through the State Department of Safety, and vehicle registration is at your County Court Clerk office, generally the County Courthouse. Most counties have Department of Safety and Homeland Security satellite offices at the County Court Clerk offices, but carry permit processing is solely at standalone offices.

Application fees are set by the DOJ and statute and are paid to the IA.

IAs can specify training, and some conduct their own while others allow contract entities to provide training. Costs of training vary, but training for initial issue shall not exceed 16 hours, and may or may not include firing.

The application fee (and legal requirement for training) is set by the General Assembly, and the fee's collected by the local Department of Safety and Homeland Security offices.

Once issued, the license is good for carry throughout all of California. Over-arching state statutes govern the carry of the weapon and general restrictions on carrying even a CCW licensed firearm (examples: State Capitol Building; Governor's Mansion; School Yards). Local jurisdictions still have some ability to further constrain the carry of the firearm, so long as it does not contravene the state authority.

It should be mentioned that we are an open carry State and there's no legal obligation to conceal. A lot of people don't understand this. Open carry is becoming more common, and police "welfare checks" called in by misinformed citizens thinking OC is violating the obsolete "carrying a weapon with the intent to go armed" statute are thankfully becoming more infrequent. The overall trend is towards preemption of local statutes; see the "guns in trunks" and "guns in parks" news stories in recent years.

Trunks: private employers with posted no gun policies cannot legally prohibit permit holder employees from keeping a gun in the car on Company property.

Parks: Cities cannot prohibit otherwise legal carry in city parks. There IS a lawsuit pending against the City of Knoxville, the City says the Tennessee Valley Agricultural and Industrial fairgrounds in Knoxville (which host several gun shows every year) aren't a city park and are exempt from the guns in parks law as a "recreational facility." In the face of an advisory opinion from the State AG that, more or less, states just the opposite and that the law does NOT exempt any sort of municipal facility like a fairgrounds.

Since there are so many different IAs, issuance of licenses around the state is uneven, ranging from virtually "zero issue"* (City and County of San Francisco have 4) to virtual "shall issue" (Orange County has over 8,000; Sacramento over 7,000).

Any change in the leadership of law enforcement can cause a change in the policy of issuance.

We're a shall issue State. Pay your tax to exercise a fundamental human right , and as long as the form is filled out right, and you have no Federal issue prohibiting possession of firearms, you're good. The only issuing authority is the State and any changes have to be enacted by the General Assembly; one thing they have done IIRC last year is we have a lifetime permit, $500 and I think after 1 January it becomes $250, and I have mentioned Constitutional Carry *in your personally owned vehicle*. You can't ConCarry as a passenger or in a business-owned vehicle like a delivery truck.


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[SkyHawk]

^^^

Where are you going with this OP? We are very familiar with the laws for obtaining CCW in most other states, and many of us hold CCW from other states including our CA permits. We know our process, like most things about gun ownership here, sucks, and we know your's is better. So what are you getting at?

[Plain Old Dave]

^^^

Where are you going with this OP? We are very familiar with the laws for obtaining CCW in most other states, and many of us hold CCW from other states including our CA permits. We know our process, like most things about gun ownership here,msucks, we know your's is better. So what are you getting at?

I work, now, in a workplace almost exclusively made up of California residents. Just trying to understand you all, and hopefully learn some about "other islands". Other State laws never really interested me before, and I was puzzled that they found my reactions to things so puzzling.

Example, slightly ot: Do people at shooting ranges *really* dime people with 15 shot mags or 49 state ARs out to the law?

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[Librarian]

Example, slightly ot: Do people at shooting ranges *really* dime people with 15 shot mags or 49 state ARs out to the law?

Not generally, but LE also use ranges, and some LE on duty troll ranges, so it's possible.

Until next year, 'possession' of 11+ mags is legal, so inquiry on those seen should prove fruitless; because of that, I doubt that particular concern is often valid.

[njineermike]

Basically the same but wait is 4 months to a year.

Unless you live in the counties where approval is never going to happen.

[baggss]

Basically the same but wait is 4 months to a year.

Um. No. Not even close.

[Dvrjon]

I work, now, in a workplace almost exclusively made up of California residents. Just trying to understand you all, and hopefully learn some about "other islands". Other State laws never really interested me before, and I was puzzled that they found my reactions to things so puzzling.

Dave, I'd be willing to accept that, but if true, we really don't need to know the Tennessee process, do we? If you are really just trying to understand us, you need to know our process. Now you do.

Example, slightly ot: Do people at shooting ranges *really* dime people with 15 shot mags or 49 state ARs out to the law?

No.

[pzbike]

Time frame can vary significantly. My IA no longer requires range qualifying. Wait was better measured in weeks than months.