Monterey

[obeygiant]

(deleted outdated info/links)

UPDATE (2015 May 10):
If you go thru p. 5 of this thread, you'll see that Sheriff Bernal has followed Sheriff Miller's CCW policy of accepting "self-defense" (SD), aka "personal protection", as sufficient Good Cause (GC) and has a radically increased the burden of Good Moral Character (GMC) (thus the "caveat" in the title). Nonetheless, if a law-abiding resident merely wants -- not "needs" -- a CCW, you should be able to get one if you pass the sheriff's unreasonable GMC requirements.

After the quote from the sheriff's CCW webpage I post how the SO and county may be liable to a federal civil rights lawsuit if they do not follow said policy and apply the same GMC standard to ALL CCW applicants. That's in case someone in Monterey Co gets denied and wants to fight to get a CCW.

Here is the CCW policy currently posted on Sheriff Bernal's website (https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/) (emphasis added):

A MESSAGE FROM MONTEREY COUNTY REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS

The purpose of this message is to give individuals interested in obtaining a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW) an idea of the standards and process for successfully obtaining one from the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

Please read through the additional requirements to obtain a CCW permit carefully before submitting your application. If you choose to continue the process I hope this message provides some clarity regarding your chances for successfully obtaining a CCW permit.

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

UPDATE (2015 July 04): Acc to post #179, a "psychological assessment" is no longer required (even though their website still says it is). This is good news because that saves applicants $150.00 and the time, effort and inconvenience of driving to and from "Law Enforcement Psychological Services" in Los Gatos (even though they say below an applicant can use "any Psychologist licensed" in CA).

Psychological Assessment: A Psychological Assessment will be administered by Law Enforcement Psychological Services. The applicant will be given appointment information after successfully completing the Personal Interview. Applicants are responsible for paying the $150.00 fee to Law Enforcement Psychological Services at the time of their appointment. Results of the assessment will be sent to the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

(emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-procedures/

Applicants for a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit are welcome to be evaluated by any Psychologist licensed in the State of California. The Sheriff’s office currently uses Psychological Services Inc, based in Los Gatos, for its CCW psychological screening. This can also be utilized as an appeal to a submitted psychological examination for CCW.

(emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-psych/

[Paladin]

Any news about the new CCW policy? I'm starting paperwork soon...

Sheriff Miller's old CCW policy per the SO's website is quoted at:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=13858276

Here is the CCW policy currently posted on Sheriff Bernal's website (https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/) (emphasis added):

A MESSAGE FROM MONTEREY COUNTY REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS

The purpose of this message is to give individuals interested in obtaining a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW) an idea of the standards and process for successfully obtaining one from the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

Please read through the additional requirements to obtain a CCW permit carefully before submitting your application. If you choose to continue the process I hope this message provides some clarity regarding your chances for successfully obtaining a CCW permit.

Looks like the critical parts are the same. (I did the bolding and/or underlining.) So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification....

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

ETA: Since its been 5 months since the Bernal has been sworn into office and the same policy statement is on the SO website, I'll update the OP. Since they say SD = GC (have gone "vSI"), I'm going to make it a "TIME TO APPLY!!!" with Alert symbol but with a caveat since they're pushing GMC to sainthood levels....

[Tripper]

Renewals are a quick interview, don't go through all that stuff again

[Tripper]

SD is sufficient
Next appointments are out to July I think

[Tripper]

Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***

Just seen this


Earliest appointment is July I think
But I'd say overwhelm them with appointments and maybe help get some of the other stuff reconsidered

[Paladin]

Just seen this


Earliest appointment is July I think
But I'd say overwhelm them with appointments and maybe help get some of the other stuff reconsidered

I won't ask what made them decide to change their policy, I'm just glad they did.

[Tripper]

I think folks should bring the app when they ask for appointment, hand it in and say the 90 starts now, then they will be pressed to do it within the livescan limit, which they can't with all the stuff they do

[gofer]

Renewals in Monterey seem to be delayed

My first LTC expires this week after two years.

I got the notice for my renewal, that had been mailed to the wrong address. I filled in the paperwork, got an appointment, and took it in early this month. I took the (re-)training, and got the paperwork in. It looks like they are backlogged, and don't know how long it might be until my information gets reviewed. FYI: Nothing has changed since last time. Once it gets reviewed, then it has to "go up the chain" for approval or dis-approval.

I assume next time I need to start the renewaql 90 days before expiration, so that there's more time.

Not much more I can do for now.

[Brian1833]

Wish i would have waited for Bernal. out 150 plus a trip to the VA(long as wait times)

[Tripper]

Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***

Renewals are a quick interview, don't go through all that stuff again

Well, now renewals require a fresh application, same as new, just no new livescan and they don't go visit neighbors again or anything. And Yes Psych is absolutely gone

Also, my understanding is that if one is denied you appeal via the undersheriff and every person I know of that has appealed has received their CCW (denial was overturned)

[Chewy65]

This boob's cute little move may be legal, but WTF! While recognizing that good cause equals self protection and avowing to do the Constitutional think, in the next breath the good sheriff says he is going to set higher GMC standards. Recognizing the proper standard for good cause shouldn't affect GMC. Then the good sheriff announces that if you apply we are going to tell everyone, including co-workers that may be very anti gun, that you are applying AND YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR JOB. The mafia was more honorable than this county Chief LEO.

[e90bmw]

California has a definition of GMC and it does not involve calling neighbors.
I can't get a CCW in Alameda County, but having to ask your neighbors if you can exercise a basic right is just wrong.

What part of concealed have they forgotten.
You may as well wear it on your belt if everyone knows you have it..........

[Brian1833]

A friend of mine pulled out of the process once they said they will speak to the neighbors. Neighbors happen to be gangsters.. Friend told investigators you can talk to my other neighbors but not them. They told her no we will talk to everyone. Why would you want to tell a bunch of gangsters one of their neighbors will carry a gun all the time. It just lets them know that person has guns in their house for sure and makes it a burglary target now

[Paladin]

This boob's cute little move may be legal, but WTF! While recognizing that good cause equals self protection and avowing to do the Constitutional think, in the next breath the good sheriff says he is going to set higher GMC standards. Recognizing the proper standard for good cause shouldn't affect GMC. Then the good sheriff announces that if you apply we are going to tell everyone, including co-workers that may be very anti gun, that you are applying AND YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR JOB. The mafia was more honorable than this county Chief LEO.

Insulting a sheriff that is slowly going in the direction we want him to is not wise.

He accepts SD = GC.
He's gotten rid of the psych eval.
He doesn't ask your references/employer/neighbors when you renew. See the above and also: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announc...y-no-pain.html

These are all "good things" that Sheriff Bernal's done w/o being forced to by the courts.

Hopefully, in time, he'll get more comfortable w/issuing CCWs and skip your employer and neighbors and just ask for 3 non-family, in county references.

Patience, Weedhopper.

California has a definition of GMC and it does not involve calling neighbors.

Really? What is it? Link?

I know about the CA AG's opinion letter from back in the 1970s, but that was in re. GC, not GMC.

A friend of mine pulled out of the process once they said they will speak to the neighbors. Neighbors happen to be gangsters.. Friend told investigators you can talk to my other neighbors but not them. They told her no we will talk to everyone. Why would you want to tell a bunch of gangsters one of their neighbors will carry a gun all the time. It just lets them know that person has guns in their house for sure and makes it a burglary target now

Probably better would be to tell the SO that they are gangmembers and ask the SO if when they talk to them to: (1) take all the names of whom they talk with and run them by their database, and (2) as them not to tell those neighbors why they're asking about your "friend": not tell them (and, ideally, not tell your other neighbors who may talk w/them) your "friend" is applying for a CCW.

Again: hopefully, after a couple of years experience (assuming we don't win SD = GC and "can own" = "can carry"/GMC via the federal courts), Sheriff Bernal will voluntarily drop some of these unwise policies.

[Iguanadon]

Three weeks ago I called for an appointment and got one in August, a six month wait. A conflict developed and I called to see if I could change it. I was told that they were now into November, a nine month wait!