Where does Calguns go from here?

[hermosabeach]

New Laws

[QUOTE=Kestryll;23325811]I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.


I think we need to draft new Laws- that follow common sense.

Bring back enhancements for using a gun or a replica in a crime

Enhancements to shooting a Police officer


We push for federal prosecution too

Try to introduce a template in every state and let the crazies turn down the laws....

I think we need to petition every PIO of law enforcement to provide equal time to people like Eric Garner-

They will talk about the video showing he died but they will not address all the opportunity he had to not die.... Fight the arrest at the courts... don't prevent violence by attacking police.


It should be common sense... but many don't know that when a cop says you are under arrest- you cant reply- you are not going to arrest me...




the chris rock PSA- its funny because it is true

[wpod]

I follow Calguns and 4 other 'gun's forums.
Calguns has the most activity BY FAR.
I really don't think Calguns needs to change. I think gun owners need to get back on track.
Calguns is a great tool for doing that.
Gunmageddon was a prime example. Nearly everyone, members and lurkers, knew about it and many stepped up and became active in the movement. But how many other gun owners did we meet than knew nothing about Calguns or Gunmageddon? Without Calguns I would have never known.
I think the best thing Calguns could do is, somehow, become more visible to CA gunowners.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[bhp1410]

[-hanko]

As I've posted more than a few times...

Mental illness needs treatment, not celebration.

[NorthBay Shooter]

I agree with a lot that has already been posted. We don’t need to change the rules. I think we need to focus on the things we can change. This state is moving left, but that does not mean the majority of the population wants it that way. It is just what gets fed to them. I know from my personal experience that when I start conversations with “my rights”, they go nowhere. Even with my family. However, when I have a discussion about what those rights mean, in ways they can understand, I get someplace.

For example, I am a competitive shooter, shooting USPSA. When I have written lawmakers, or had discussion with friends, co-workers, etc., about the number of rounds I purchase, I need to use ways they can understand. When I simply say, I shoot about 1000 rounds a month, they look surprised that I “need” that much. However, when I say, compare shooting to golf. If every time you hit the ball you needed a new one, how many golf balls do you need. So, let’s say you play golf every Sunday and shoot about 100. You also go to the driving range once a week to practice. You hit a large bucket of balls (about 250). Well, that’s 1400 balls a month. Let’s say that you can no longer purchase golf balls at reduced prices from the internet and had to buy them at the golf course (about 30% more expensive). Would you want that?

As others have posted, perhaps a place where there are templates for writing on certain topics.

I also think we need to have a place on the forums where we post actual facts about guns. Not right wing or left-wing talking points, or data from less than accurate websites. It is very helpful to have facts to use when having discussions with people with the anti-viewpoints. Take mass shootings for example. The defining factor to become a mass shooting, is 4 people. Or AR is for the original manufacturer, Armalite Rifle. Or what’s the gun show loophole?
How about the fact there is no actual definition of assault rifle or assault weapon, it is simply looks scary, it is not more deadly. I took a stock Ruger 10/22 and showed a picture to several people. I asked if I should own it for target shooting, hunting, etc. The answer was absolutely. I then took a picture of a 10/22 with the AR kit applied. The answer was no, why would you need that gun. I finally, showed the kit and described the actual properties of the gun, the trigger, the barrel, the ability to load rounds from the mag, were exactly the same on both guns. I then explained, having the adjustable stock made it easier for my 13 year old to shoot, then hand it to his sister to shoot. The barrel shroud made it easier to hold with smaller hands.

I think we have a lot of really smart people on this site. We just need to make sure we can leverage their collective knowledge in a meaningful way.

[-hanko]

[QUOTE=hermosabeach;23328027]

I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.


I think we need to draft new Laws- that follow common sense.

Bring back enhancements for using a gun or a replica in a crime

Enhancements to shooting a Police office.

"Common sense" gun laws began to disappear 30 years ago. Not sure with a Demo-run legislature and Demo-elected executive branch, how you can do it? California voters won't let it happen. LOOK AT HISTORY...Are gun laws loosening or becoming more restrictive???


We push for federal prosecution too

Try to introduce a template in every state and let the crazies turn down the laws....

Every state doesn't need a template...the majority of states don't have a California-planned template and definitely do not want one.

I think we need to petition every PIO of law enforcement to provide equal time to people like Eric Garner-

They will talk about the video showing he died but they will not address all the opportunity he had to not die.... Fight the arrest at the courts... don't prevent violence by attacking police.

It should be common sense... but many don't know that when a cop says you are under arrest- you cant reply- you are not going to arrest me...

It IS common sense in the majority of states.

[drutledge79]

Thank you for reflecting on calguns. It's a great community but some introspection is due. I have two topics I'd like to share.

1) This is CAL -- GUNS. Not Republican Guns. Not United States Guns. The only 2 things that seem permanent here is that it is a gathering place about guns and California.

California votes largely democratic. It has relatively high numbers of immigrants, LGBTetc and even extreme far-leftists. It is politically dominated by its urban centers all of which tend to historically vote democrat which is near universally anti-gun. There is an undertone of resentment here but... this is CALIFORNIA -- GUNS. Shunning the majority of the state and then complaining about it is a pointless exercise. This is the state we are in. Embrace it and move forward.

2) The idea of squashing opposing political parties is completely insane. See #1 above but also: In my eyes, the political establishment is the opposition of the people. R/D doesn't matter. Neither party is seeking to empower individuals. The system is more corrupt than it has been in a long time.

Despite the divisive rhetoric I have faith in my fellow citizens. The vast, vast majority are good, honest, upstanding people. From all walks of life. Rich/poor. Immigrant or native-born. Religious or not.

If there is any political focus here I would suggest it be towards a pro-democracy movement. What is that? Supporting change which empowers all citizens equally and removes power from the rich who currently wield out-sized power. Unfortunately most of these end up being partisan issues (which will always be the case -- with change someone will almost always gain or lose). The changes I'm referring to are like:
- publicly funded elections (aka the election-before-the-election is determined by the rich right now)
- end partisan gerrymandering
- ranked-choice voting and pooled districts to greatly increase representation (e.g. 3rd party candidates are possible and won't be spoilers)
- reform to the congressional seat -> lobbyist cycle
- voting reform; everyone should have equal access to vote



More specifically for myself: I don't want to be a part of a community which feels it needs to ostracize, disempower or disenfranchise another group in order to get its way. Without the powers-that-be pulling the strings (politically or in the media) and sewing discord I trust that regular citizens would band together and come to the conclusion that firearms are simply a tool (a powerful tool) in empowering individuals.

[fecalguns]

I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.

There's no way to deny or candy coat the fact that we're in a bad place. As gun owners we're a 'safe target' for politicians, our rights are teetering on the edge of non-existence and frankly unless we're talking about social media where everyone's a 'no compromise' activist we're about as silent as a whipped dog who doesn't want to be hit again.

We've had some truly tragic events recently, Gilroy, El Paso and Dayton, and while we as gun owners mourn the senseless loss of life the politicians who see our freedoms as something 'in the way' of their ability to control our lives use these tragedies as stepping stones towards their desire for a disarmed America.

We talk a good game when we have a win, Freedom Week was great and everyone was all ready to go all Gadsden over their new magazines, but what happened a week or two later? The big discussions were over which companies hadn't delivered yet and what we'd been 'lucky enough to score'.

When it comes right down to it maybe 5-8 out of every 100 gun owners is willing to do anything more than send in a membership check and then complain that nothing is being done.

Yes, organizations like CRPA and NRA are fighting hard for us in the courts and despite the super-majority the anti-civil rights Democrats hold in California the CRPA and NRA have full time lobbyists in Sacramento trying to prevent bad bills from becoming bad laws. But the real question becomes is all we can do is let them carry our water and hope they win?

There was a time, actually not that long ago, when members of Calguns were engaged and involved in efforts to fight for our rights. We closed down the capitol switchboards, overloaded their email servers and flooded their offices with letters. We had a voice, we used it and win or lose we never let them forget we were here, watching, voting and fighting.

Things have changed, there's no denying it. The laws we face are worse than ever, many of us are 'represented' by the same Democrat anti-civil rights politicians that propose eliminating our Constitutional rights and it's very reasonable to be doubtful that they will listen to us at all. The question is do we give up and stay silent because they won't listen or do we become louder regardless of whether they listen or not?

I've stated my position numerous times, I'm going to fight until I'm dead and I don't care who listens or doesn't I'm going to yell as loud as I can. While I do think that we hit a point of diminishing returns a while ago in regards to contacting our Legislators I still think it's useful to do so to remind them we haven't gone away or given up if nothing else.

I think the future of our fight is twofold, litigation via orgs like CRPA and NRA especially now that the face of the 9th is being changed by new appointments and by working through the electoral process. Yes, we're outnumbered but there is still a LOT of us here and people are voting less each election which means win or lose our voice can stand out as something to be reckoned with. We're not going to change things quickly or everywhere all at once, we need to try to make changes locally first.


As I said I've stated my thoughts numerous times but my thoughts aren't what count, your thoughts are what I need to hear.

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
I've always tried to focus Calguns as a place where all are welcome and with a goal of working for our 2A rights, I've tried to keep Calguns workplace and family friendly so we could reach the next generation of gun owners and 2A supporters, I've tried to keep Calguns open to all points of view, Republican, Democrat, pro-2A and anti-2A with all having a voice as long as it is a civil voice.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path? Don't fix what's not broken.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party? No. Welcoming others strengthens us.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here? No. The younger crowd should be able to handle your reasonable requirements. That said, nothing wrong with a little poke here and there.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A? Are you nuts? No.


Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community? Now you're fricking looneytunes. NO!




We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.

I think it might be time to either reengage or find a new direction to focus on and since it is this community, not me, that built Calguns in to what it is I want to hear from you what path you think we should choose.

In Bold.

[Rizzo]

Kestryll, I am happy with the way Calguns is.

This site is quite diverse with it's different forums and I can't think of anything I would add.

We are kept informed about 2a issues in State and National arenas.
There are informative CRPA forums as well.

I think that as gun enthusiasts we can promote our view of gun issues with folks that we see and talk to.
There is so much FUD out there in peoples mind that come from the agenda driven media.

I have mentioned Calguns.net to a lot of people that are ignorant about gun issues.

Trying to shift the public view about guns is way larger than Calguns.net.

Thanks for what you do here.
Much appreciated.

[DaveInOroValley]

I vote to keep things family friendly as they are now. However it would nice to see some type of sticky as a repository for firearms facts and figures vs. what gets spewed by the media and people that have no knowledge of the facts.

It could be used as a counterpoint library when others out there (not usually on CGN) spout off some outright misinformation and outright lies regarding firearms.

In turn I also agree with what someone else already mentioned. Make CGN a paid membership forum. That would benefit everyone all around.

[meno377]

In turn I also agree with what someone else already mentioned. Make CGN a paid membership forum. That would benefit everyone all around.

I understand the spirit driven to make this a paid membership forum, however I believe this would be a dis-service to the younger crowd including college students. While the free membership makes it easy for the lowbrows to infect the website, it still shows a spirit for everyone else to express their voice from time to time and I think that is paramount.

[M60A1Rise]

Focus on Gun Rights and Gun Rights ONLY. Do not promote the GOP - which admittedly has a vastly better record on this matter, but far from perfect - as being "The party of Freedom" as they are NOT any more than the Democrats are. Only a fool believes any politician.

Reach out to those who are not right wing Christians, and for Goddess' sake, stop thumping the Bible! Stop the "Bible-speak", and using outdated words like "mock" that should have been left in the 19th century. This is, or should be, Cal GUNS, not Cal BIBLE, regardless of what anyone's individual religion may or may not be.

I'm not saying this is "offensive" - it takes a lot more than that to "offend" me - I'm saying its divisive and non-inclusive and is DRIVING AWAY POTENTIAL ALLIES. The NRA is starting to have this exact same issue, with the same results - their internal problems not withstanding. If people don't feel welcome, they certainly won't ally with you.

I go to a shooting event every year in the deep south, and there are NONE of these issues there. The result: 3 Pagans, 2 Liberals, and at least 1 atheist join all the Christians every year and we all have a grand old time - because everybody goes out of their way to keep it focused on guns, shooting, food, and camaraderie and leave both the politics and their religion at home where it belongs. We all agree on gun rights, and that's all we need to agree on. Frankly, that isn't the atmosphere here, and I'd guess, not so much at California shooting events either; although I'll give the latter the benefit of the doubt as I wasn't involved when I was a Californian.

You said it better than I could in type , if face to face this is what I meant by my post. There is so much hate/bigotry/religion and racism posted here it scares away a lot of people , TRUST ME i've tried to get some to join. People who own guns are NOT just Republican Pro Life Christians

AND they WANT to be included ! They want to help too. But they fear the rhetoric. I stay quiet because I look and think different than most here and no i'm not a Democrat. When I first joined up I gave a member here around $400 worth of ammo FREE and didn't even know him. I did it because he was/is a gun owner and I don't shoot .20g anymore. We talked and I knew it was going to a good place.

I didn't care his religion or political stance , haven't talked him since and it's still all good. See where i'm going here ? We ALL own guns , WE are a tribe , WE need each other. But again like my military analogy before some people will just never get it even though WE need each other.

[BakoJ]

As far as format, Ilike Calguns the way it is. I'm fortunate to have interacted with so many savvy firearms owners who have provided me with free training and insight.

I enjoy the political banter and have no problem that we have liberal members where who provide a counterpoint to discussion. The 2A is a natural right which transcends politics. I believe we each have to be more tolerant and listen to each other. If I would change anything about Calguns, it would be that were harder on those who are I tolerant, name-call, incapable of discussion without devolving it to the gutter. We should always "go high." The fact is, to win this fight in California we NEED Democrats/liberals on our side. Conservatives no longer have the numbers. How do we bridge this ideological divide? With action. We need to use Calguns to better organize. We need outreach. It will take a commitment from those who are most passionate to get the word out. We need a cohesive message. I believe we have the place where that can be developed.


I feel like Calguns neglects the middle of the state, where activism might be stronger, because the forum seems naturally separated via NorCal/SoCal. What if we had teams of activists that were Calguns sanctioned who would go to events and represent Calguns? I know there are some at the OC Gun show but there are opportunities at county fairs and other locations right in the middle of the state. I'll volunteer to lead the effort.

My son and I wear our Calguns and Zombie Shoot gear daily. We engage in discussions with non-members about checking out the site and how it is the front line for firearm activism and education in California. I think all of us who want to see the site grow and our rights protected, would be willing to do the same.

On Zombie Shoot - we need people to come and make it a rallying point. Like the Super Bowl of California firearms activism. We don't just shoot but we get together, refine our message, meet like-minded folks and celebrate our freedoms. We'd love to see the head janitor there. It would mean a lot, even if it's just for the day.

[ZirconJohn]

Wowww CG --- Except the first line, I never been banned ... I do fear it That's ^^^ almost word for word what I wanted to say, but since you write better than me ... I'll just 2'nd your post.

Nice job Sir

[harbormaster]

my response exactly

This person answered each of these questions as I would for what it is worth.

I'd like to know what calguns.net is going to do politically if anything? No offense to the many who give money to lawyers and file law suits but I feel the industry can (and should) fund that; I'm interested in winning elections again. Is anyone going to work on that?

I'm going to look at your "questions" as either a "YES" or "NO" questionnaire.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Respectfully
Kyle