Cable locks

[Tovarish]

Hi there,

I would like clarification from Turner's on the policies surrounding cable locks.

It is my understanding that a lock is not required to be sold by the FFL if the customer presents an approved lock and receipt dated within the last 30 days. Every FFL I use honors such a receipt without a hassle.

I was informed today that Turner's would not honor a receipt for a lock sold within the last 30 days (incidentally purchased at the same Turner's) because that lock was purchased along with another firearm.

A manager assisted and claimed I would be "openly committing a felony" if I used my receipt and he refused to do it. When I showed the applicable law to another manager, he stated that it was actually corporate policy.

Even if I had to purchase the lock, I requested that the lock not be paid for until I pick up the firearm (which I can't do for another 39 days) so that I didn't waste this lock. I was also not allowed to do this. I'm not exactly sure why, as I have been able to before.

The law is not ambiguous about the cable lock exemption. It seems to me that Turner's is exploiting the law to ciphon an extra few bucks off of its customers for no reason.

Can you please clarify this? Does Turner's indeed have a policy, independent of the law, of prohibiting the 30 day receipt exemption?

Thanks.

[antiseen]

Not sure about that so here's a bump for interest.

I will say that turners sold me a lock twice and both times never gave it to me. The first time was for a sig pistol that came with a cable lock already but they charged me the 6 bucks anyway. The second was for a c&r pistol they didn't bother to give me the lock I paid for.

Kinda bothers me that I essentially just threw 12 dollars into the wind, but I remember this is California. I throw more money into the wind on gun purchases because of the state, anyway.

[Tovarish]

Not sure about that so here's a bump for interest.

I will say that turners sold me a lock twice and both times never gave it to me. The first time was for a sig pistol that came with a cable lock already but they charged me the 6 bucks anyway. The second was for a c&r pistol they didn't bother to give me the lock I paid for.

Kinda bothers me that I essentially just threw 12 dollars into the wind, but I remember this is California. I throw more money into the wind on gun purchases because of the state, anyway.

Hey, maybe if you're lucky Turner's will make amends by sending you some free cable locks

[Scratch705]

but lock at another place (ie wal-mart, big-5, etc) then return once you pick up gun.

[baka]

You should of found a customer sold him the lock for a dollar then bought it back for a dollar and presented them the hand written receipt

[antiseen]

Hey, maybe if you're lucky Turner's will make amends by sending you some free cable locks

Well if they sent two, they wouldn't be free, just late.

[jwa]

California Gun Laws Book by C.D.Michel pages 122-123 cover this Handgun
issue.

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

Hi there,

I would like clarification from Turner's on the policies surrounding cable locks.

It is my understanding that a lock is not required to be sold by the FFL if the customer presents an approved lock and receipt dated within the last 30 days. Every FFL I use honors such a receipt without a hassle.

I was informed today that Turner's would not honor a receipt for a lock sold within the last 30 days (incidentally purchased at the same Turner's) because that lock was purchased along with another firearm.

A manager assisted and claimed I would be "openly committing a felony" if I used my receipt and he refused to do it. When I showed the applicable law to another manager, he stated that it was actually corporate policy.

Even if I had to purchase the lock, I requested that the lock not be paid for until I pick up the firearm (which I can't do for another 39 days) so that I didn't waste this lock. I was also not allowed to do this. I'm not exactly sure why, as I have been able to before.

The law is not ambiguous about the cable lock exemption. It seems to me that Turner's is exploiting the law to ciphon an extra few bucks off of its customers for no reason.

Can you please clarify this? Does Turner's indeed have a policy, independent of the law, of prohibiting the 30 day receipt exemption?

Thanks.

Thanks for asking; let's see if we can clear this up.

Firstly, we have no policy or best practice that exceeds 23635 but we think we can see where there may be a disconnect.

Secondly, contrary to often-parroted urban legend, we don't sell enough gun locks to move the needle profit-wise. 90% of the guns we sell have locks; it's not worth the effort to corral that last 10%- we can do better selling you just one more box of ammo or some cleaning gear. By the way, less than 2% of purchasers bring us a lock/receipt combo when purchasing C&R's or PPT's that don't come with a lock.

So with your first scenario- if you buy a long gun and a lock on purchase/PPT number one, you can return with that lock and receipt (even if a gun is on that invoice/receipt) and use that lock for purchase/PPT number two. We have no issue with that and we can clear that up with staff that doesn't understand that you can. (23635(c)(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.)

But where we may not be on the same page is your request that we put a lock on the DROS on day one for handgun transfer/PPT number one, but don't actually ring you up for that until the end of your 10-day wait- this would give you a receipt that gives you enough time to use that lock (w/receipt) for transfer/PPT #2 20 days later.

The timing issue- when the sale/receipt is made and dated- either at time of DROS or at a later time prior to delivery though we've already stated it on the DROS- is not covered by 23635 or by the regulations written for that.

Like a lot of similar issues we've addressed this through recommended best practices from our attorneys and generally they do not recommend that we establish something at time of DROS that we have yet to perform at a later date.

We'll revisit this with them and see what they recommend.

If you could, PM us with the store and managers you spoke with.

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

Not sure about that so here's a bump for interest.

I will say that turners sold me a lock twice and both times never gave it to me. The first time was for a sig pistol that came with a cable lock already but they charged me the 6 bucks anyway. The second was for a c&r pistol they didn't bother to give me the lock I paid for.

Kinda bothers me that I essentially just threw 12 dollars into the wind, but I remember this is California. I throw more money into the wind on gun purchases because of the state, anyway.

You can address this with the store if or as these things happen. If they erred, we'll take care of it.

[Tovarish]

Turner's has been in touch with me via PM to clarify the policies and I'm actually really impressed by the communication. It seems that some personnel had a different understanding of policy and law than HQ's.

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

Turner's has been in touch with me via PM to clarify the policies and I'm actually really impressed by the communication. It seems that some personnel had a different understanding of policy and law than HQ's.

We're glad we could get things on track- we hope the info on the safe affidavit vs. CSLA and factory locks that are not CA-approved helped out, too. We've discussed the lock w/receipt exemption with the store manager and district manager in the specific store you mentioned so we should be square on that point as well.

As for the issue with buying the lock at pick up- instead of buying it when we enter the info into the DROS, consider this- when you buy a gun (or do a transfer) on a handgun that does not come with a lock, we can add the lock to the invoice. That will cover our concerns since we are committing that lock to the DROS.

When a customer picks up that handgun after 10 days+, a receipt is printed from our register showing the gun was delivered along with the lock that was on the invoice that was also delivered. That receipt is dated with the date you picked up your handgun giving you what we think you were looking for- a receipt with a 30 day period starting at time of pick-up not at time of DROS 10+ days prior.

[Think4WD]

I hate how there is CA gun laws then what Turners perceives as law. The lock thing has always pissed me off cause its a clear scam to make money. I also hate how they change policy from one day to the next. For example, if your address doesn't match on your license it used to be ok as long as you brought it second proof by end of dros but now that's not ok. As a guy who buys a lot of guns every year I can assure you only Turners does this.

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

I hate how there is CA gun laws then what Turners perceives as law. The lock thing has always pissed me off cause its a clear scam to make money.

Not sure if you read any of response above but 95% of what we sell as new comes with locks; we don't need to sell locks to "make money". So, it seems that most of the friction comes with PPT's. What part of the law requiring you to have a lock for a handgun transfer is a Turner's policy?

I also hate how they change policy from one day to the next.

Have you seen the litany of dealer bulletins from the DOJ this year? Federal LEO's can no longer claim a waiting period exemption, LEO must have a letter from the Chief and only the Chief, C&R FFL w/COE has no 1-in-30 exemption unless the handgun is a C&R... etc.

Our policies will change as DOJ, ATF or our attorneys, mandate or suggest respectively.

For example, if your address doesn't match on your license it used to be ok as long as you brought it second proof by end of dros but now that's not ok.

Not surprising that there are differences in how attorneys for different dealers will make suggestions based on the Federal language for ID that says "before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm... the licensee must... establish ... place of residence". We're also sure that some dealers rely on no attorneys, too. That's up to them.

All of that said, employees make mistakes as was the case with some of what the OP brought to us and we resolved that. If you have any questions on a specific experience that you have in a store, please contact us via the contact info on our webpage or in the sticky thread in our forum and we'll walk through it.

[ifilef]

It 'goes with the territory'...

The Turner's employee who responds here should be commended.

Thank you- for your discretion in diplomatically handling complaints, whether valid or invalid 'over the top' ones- even for posters here who I personally have placed on 'IGNORE' months, if not years, ago.

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

The Turner's employee who responds here should be commended.

Thank you- for your discretion in diplomatically handling complaints, whether valid or invalid 'over the top' ones- even for posters here who I personally have placed on 'IGNORE' months, if not years, ago.

No worries here. We'll address issues where our staff is off-track; likewise we'll be direct as to why we do or don't do things that other dealers do or don't do. The question from the OP was a perfect opportunity for us to make sure an employee had things right and a chance to clear up the conflict in CA's lock requirement vs. the Federal CSLA- no harm at all in asking for that help.

Typically, though, other posters may pop up with other questions or anecdotal stories. We'll address those in the same manner as the OP's- helping or correcting where staff had issues where they were off track or communicating the mandates from ATF or DOJ, or guidance from our attorney.