Did this really happen?

[CSACANNONEER]

If so, it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1159927

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

If so, it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1159927

For some time now, we've been acting under advisement from our attorneys with regards to transfers (sales or otherwise) of multi-tube shotguns wherein the construction/design of the tubes might be considered a single "ammunition feeding device" with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. Such designs when limited to 10 rounds or less are not an issue nor are other designs where the tubes are separately constructed. In the latter case tube capacity up to 10 rounds is not an issue.

There is an inherent risk in asking for something in writing from a regulatory agency, asking for a confirmation or rebuttal of that analysis. While the latter might aid a few PPT's a year and create some additional sales for ourselves, a rebuttal might risk that regulatory agency agreeing with that analysis in a more formal way that has a larger negative affect. We've chosen to explain to customers what our attorneys have advised as an alternative to pushing the point with a given regulatory authority.

If any customer or another dealer wishes to pursue that question of twin-tube/single device with a given regulatory authority whereas that agency's written analysis would override our attorney's analysis, that'd be great; if however it went the other way, a lot of dealers and current owners of certain shotguns may be worse off and that's something we've looked to avoid.

[5.56Geo]

At the end of the day each FFL license holder has to do what best for them and theirs. Turner's has made a decision and has expressed their reasoning.

They have employees, venders, manufactures, customers and others that depend on them being able to stay in business. Jeopardizing their FFL just to sell a few guns or to please a customer is just not worth it. Frankly, I don't blame them. Long live Turner's!

My thoughts.....

[SkyHawk]

But of course you can stick more than ten 12ga mini shells in the tube of many shotguns on the shelf at Turners - what do your lawyers say about that?

Woops

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

But of course you can stick more than ten 12ga mini shells in the tube of many shotguns on the shelf at Turners - what do your lawyers say about that?

... Except that we don't carry shotguns with 1 3/4" chambers; if the feeding device holds less than 10 3" shells, no issues for us if they can fit whatever number of shorter length shells.

[CSACANNONEER]

Thanks for the explanation. I wonder if the employee explained Turner's position properly or if the bold parts below really happened? We will probably never know.

This is ridiculous today I went to Transfer ownership of my California Registered Kel Tec KSG in Chino Hills Turners and they refused to do the FFL transfer due to brand??? Is this even legal for them to deny transfer services to a legal gun??

I will never shop at this place again. They gave some stupid story because they don't sell them in the store that can't do the transfer. He then told me to write a letter to Turners headquarters and complain. Forget the letter just won't shop here again.

Also, if we accept your explanation of why you refused the transfer, why are you currently listing a 16 round multi-magazine shotgun for sale?

[Turner's Outdoorsman]

Thanks for the explanation. I wonder if the employee explained Turner's position properly or if the bold parts below really happened? We will probably never know.



Also, if we accept your explanation of why you refused the transfer, why are you currently listing a 16 round multi-magazine shotgun for sale?

The DP-12 has two separate barrels, one tube on each barrel- we wish they made a 20" version with 10 shot capacity on each tube/barrel set! FWIW, we did an amazing amount of PPT DROS's last year- more than all of the DROS's done total in all but but some of the larger CA counties- except for questions/issues like this or AW issues, expired customer ID's, etc. we don't turn down PPT's.

[SkyHawk]

... Except that we don't carry shotguns with 1 3/4" chambers; if the feeding device holds less than 10 3" shells, no issues for us if they can fit whatever number of shorter length shells.

Lawyers - making it up as they go along since 400 BC. Or is it gun store employees making it up as they go along?

Too bad for your lawyers the law says nothing at all about the chamber length, and the fact remains that a chamber designed to chamber a 12ga round is a 12ga chamber.

By your argument, a single tube that could accept eleven 2.75" shells in a gun that had a max 3" chamber, would be legal because it could only hold ten 3" shells. Is that what you're saying - you would sell or transfer that gun??

16740.
As used in this part, “large-capacity magazine” means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(b) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

[CSACANNONEER]

The DP-12 has two separate barrels, one tube on each barrel- we wish they made a 20" version with 10 shot capacity on each tube/barrel set! FWIW, we did an amazing amount of PPT DROS's last year- more than all of the DROS's done total in all but but some of the larger CA counties- except for questions/issues like this or AW issues, expired customer ID's, etc. we don't turn down PPT's.

OK, if that's your explanation, that's your explanation and I can accept it. I haven't seen anything in the law making multiple barrels exempt from the +10 round mag law but, I'm not a lawyer. Thank you for your explanation.

As far as your PPT policies go, I really don't care how many you did last year. I know how the Pasadena store treated me a few years back when trying to do a PPT there and, because of that, I opt not to shop at Turner's if I can help it. I'll be honest that the policy of not doing PPTs after waiting for my number to be called because, "only one employee does them and it takes him an hour to do each one" totally sucks. We waited for 45 minutes and were told that even if we took another number, we could be passed by again unless the one employee was free. We drove to another FFL and were in and out in under 10 minutes. Anyway, that practice has kept me from spending tens of thousands of dollars at Turners and also kept me from recommending your stores to anyone else. In other words, you could probably double to triple your sales per store if you changed your PPT policies and were more efficient possessing them. It's not about the few dollars made on a PPT. It's about providing good customer service instead of driving away avid collectors (in my case, both parties had collections well into the three figure mark) by treating them like second class citizens when they do a PPT.

[readysetgo]

Comp CSAcanoneer and skyhawk some .22lr to lessen the butthurt!

OR...comp me some and I will heckle them at every opportunity!

[CSACANNONEER]

Comp CSAcanoneer and skyhawk some .22lr to lessen the butthurt!

OR...comp me some and I will heckle them at every opportunity!

Is that how you got the .22lr you sold to me?

Really, I wouldn't take a comp from Turner's. I'd rather feel confident that I could walk into any of their stores and get half way decent service. Currently, I only feel that way about one of their stores and, I tend to avoid that one because of the poor service I have received at 5 or 6 other locations I've been to over the years.

I will give credit where credit is due though. Whoever has responded for them in this thread, has given an honest and timely response regarding the original question and I appreciate that.

[readysetgo]

Is that how you got the .22lr you sold to me?

See? It's how I buttered you up!

Told you turners, these guys aren't so salty, you just have to add BUTTER...I mean rimfire ammo. Or hugs. Or shoulder rubs. Big teddy bears.

Grrr...

[Baja]

But of course you can stick more than ten 12ga mini shells in the tube of many shotguns on the shelf at Turners - what do your lawyers say about that?

Woops

lol I was thinking about those as well. It looks like every shotgun I own with the exception of my over/under is "grey"

[jdben92883]

Actually I ask to differ. I'm a LONG time Turners customer. I scheduled a PPT to sell my G35 Gen4 to another Calgunner. Meeting place was Turners Chino Hills at noon 1/11/16. My buyer got there 40 minutes early and pulled a number. When I arrived, there were about 10-12 guys waiting...not a big crowd, but not a 15-minute in-and-out crowd either. My buyer's number was 1 or two from being called, but when the only Black Shirt in the building saw me enter and check in my pistol, he walked up to us and said he wasn't taking numbers for PPTs. I asked him what he meant and he replied the numbers didn't apply for PPTs and we'd have to wait until the store was cleared. Asked him when that would be and he just shrugged. Pressed him further for a time or clarification for what he meant by the store being "cleared" and he replied in the most a-hole-ish of manner, "when I call number 99 and there is no 99 or anyone else waiting, then I'll do your PPT".

Since Turners is rarely EMPTY, he basically told us he wasn't doing our PPT. I suggested that he was required to do the PPT as an FFL, and his response was he could stop doing them on the spot if he wanted. I was pretty shocked as the guy made a pretty decent scene in front of a good amount of customers.

I asked for Bobby or ANYONE else but this guy was the only Black Shirt working. I believe his first or last name was Curtis or Chris...can't find my biz card with notes on it right now. I called the Corona store and explained what had just happened and asked if this was some new Turners policy re: PPTs. The gal seemed not to be surprised about this particular manager, told me there were only a couple of people in line there, and to come on down. We did, and the PPT was done quickly and w/o incident.

I'm not a Turner's basher and have used them for literally dozens of PPTs, several new firearms, and plenty of fishing tackle. The Chino Hills guy REALLY made their store look bad. I'm not a chest beater nor do I blow things out of proportion to cause drama. I haven't even mentioned this incident here on Calguns until this post. I did make a call to corporate and was referred over to Rob who was off work that day. I went out of town the following day, but did make a call to Jim (Chino manager...think that's his name) the week I retuned. Never received a call back from him.

So in summary, you guys most certainly turned down a PPT, if not directly, by some rogue assist. manager's "policy".

The DP-12 has two separate barrels, one tube on each barrel- we wish they made a 20" version with 10 shot capacity on each tube/barrel set! FWIW, we did an amazing amount of PPT DROS's last year- more than all of the DROS's done total in all but but some of the larger CA counties- except for questions/issues like this or AW issues, expired customer ID's, etc. we don't turn down PPT's.

[I Swan]

Very interesting. I hope you post this elsewhere so Turners can not delete or edit or lock this thread. And people wonder why I refuse to do a PPT at Turners. Turners may like that but that diverts my cash elsewhere to their competitors. I buy 40-60 guns a year and I have receipts to prove it.

Chino Hills usually seems to be one of the better Turners so this is unfortunate. Reseda is by far the worst in my opinion. I have bought guns from most Turners locations at one time or another.