Gunsmithing requires serial number

[Nguyen]

No, this is not another complaining butthurt thread. I was calling in to get my AKM serviced, and the person who took my call stated that any gun you guys take in for gunsmithing has to have a serial number so it can be sent to california doj? Why is that?

[nick]

And why does it need to be sent to CA DOJ?

[Fjold]

The person who took your call is ignorant of the law.

[tal3nt]

I believe it's just to keep a log of and to account for all firearms in RG possession. And perhaps to avoid home built firearms since those type of issues are usually due to off spec receivers..

Nothing to do with sending your SN# and gunsmithing info to DoJ I wouldn't think... Perhaps YOU misunderstood?

[Nguyen]

I believe it's just to keep a log of and to account for all firearms in RG possession. And perhaps to avoid home built firearms since those type of issues are usually due to off spec receivers..

Nothing to do with sending your SN# and gunsmithing info to DoJ I wouldn't think... Perhaps YOU misunderstood?

yeah i probably misunderstood. She said something with serial number and california doj... Never mind guys. My mistake.

[shark92651]

Yeah, I'm sure you misunderstood the conversation. Nobody told you that we "send your serial number to the DOJ" when we perform gunsmith services, but we are required to maintain an in-house log of customer's firearms that are left in our possession. This is because if a Fed or State auditor comes in to start an audit we can account for every firearm that is in the building, since firearms that belong to a customer would not be in our standard firearms disposition log.

In addition to not being able to log in unserialized firearms, we really don't want the liability of working on someone's home-built firearms.

The person who took your call is ignorant of the law.

Oh really?

I believe it's just to keep a log of and to account for all firearms in RG possession. And perhaps to avoid home built firearms since those type of issues are usually due to off spec receivers..

Nothing to do with sending your SN# and gunsmithing info to DoJ I wouldn't think... Perhaps YOU misunderstood?

You nailed it!

[Nguyen]

Even tho I had some issues with riflegear, all of the employees i've dealt with are very knowledgeable. This was my mistake, not the worker.

[M1NM]

..... not being able to log in unserialized firearms.

How do you work on old guns without serial numbers? Lots of pre 1968 guns were sold without them.

[shark92651]

How do you work on old guns without serial numbers? Lots of pre 1968 guns were sold without them.

We would probably just log it in with a make/model description, although I can't recall us working on any older guns like that.

[texterter]

good to know.

[NATEWA]

Yeah, I'm sure you misunderstood the conversation. Nobody told you that we "send your serial number to the DOJ" when we perform gunsmith services, but we are required to maintain an in-house log of customer's firearms that are left in our possession. This is because if a Fed or State auditor comes in to start an audit we can account for every firearm that is in the building, since firearms that belong to a customer would not be in our standard firearms disposition log.

In addition to not being able to log in unserialized firearms, we really don't want the liability of working on someone's home-built firearms.



Oh really?



You nailed it!

Curious how long these log books are kept? Is there a state law requiring you to keep the log books for a designated amount of time? Who does the state audit - DOJ and/or ATF? Can a LE agency come in, grab your log book and start running serial numbers and/or names and addresses?

[CSACANNONEER]

The SN is only required to be logged if there is a SN. There are millions of legal firearms that do not have SNs. These get logged in with SN = NONE. It is that simple. I find it hard to believe that so many FFLs can't grasp this simple concept. This is no different than a FFL selling a firearm which was legally made prior to '68 without a SN.

Shark,
If you're going to SHOT, I'd love to meet up with you at the ATF booth and ask an agent about this FTF. The looser owes the winner a beer. OK?

[shark92651]

The SN is only required to be logged if there is a SN. There are millions of legal firearms that do not have SNs. These get logged in with SN = NONE. It is that simple. I find it hard to believe that so many FFLs can't grasp this simple concept. This is no different than a FFL selling a firearm which was legally made prior to '68 without a SN.

Shark,
If you're going to SHOT, I'd love to meet up with you at the ATF booth and ask an agent about this FTF. The looser owes the winner a beer. OK?

I'm probably not going to go to SHOT this year, too busy. I'm not arguing with you about whether or not we can log it in, I already stated above that we would log it in with make/model info. We have done transfers on firearms without serial numbers in the past. However, we don't normally do gunsmithing on firearms that old or on homebuilt firearms. I don't really know exactly what was said to this customer but I know it wasn't that we send the information to the DOJ.

Curious how long these log books are kept? Is there a state law requiring you to keep the log books for a designated amount of time? Who does the state audit - DOJ and/or ATF? Can a LE agency come in, grab your log book and start running serial numbers and/or names and addresses?

We would allow an ATF or DOJ auditor to view the information for items currently at our premises (not historical data). We would not release any of our information to any LE agency, for a fishing expedition, without a subpoena or court order.

[CSACANNONEER]

I'm probably not going to go to SHOT this year, too busy. I'm not arguing with you about whether or not we can log it in, I already stated above that we would log it in with make/model info. We have done transfers on firearms without serial numbers in the past. However, we don't normally do gunsmithing on firearms that old or on homebuilt firearms. I don't really know exactly what was said to this customer but I know it wasn't that we send the information to the DOJ.



We would allow an ATF or DOJ auditor to view the information for items currently at our premises (not historical data). We would not release any of our information to any LE agency, for a fishing expedition, without a subpoena or court order.

I know it can be done for firearms without SNs produced prior to 1968. If I remember, I'll ask ATF about newer, unmarked, homebuilt firearms. I'm curious if there is a difference.

[rolotomassi]

Can RG engrave firearms?