Where to carry on the waist?

[Kate]

Hi All,
Three years ago, there was a thread in this forum about where we carry. There was lots of good info and ideas shared. I thought I would ask the current thinking, but focusing on the waist carry. The Well-Armed Woman site says about half of us carry some place on the waist, and that is fine, but then, where on the waist?

Knowing the purse carry is not only slow to access, but also easy to take, I have been carrying IWB at 6:00 o'clock. However yesterday, I was going through some advanced training with my CCW instructor, who after watching me said, "As long as it took you to present the weapon from 6:00 o'clock, from the standard 21 feet, I could have slowly walked over to you, beat the snot out of you, and raped you before you got that weapon out." Yes, I had practiced, and yes, it was smooth, but it was not fast.

So I thought what about 3:00 o'clock? Even with my relatively wimpy hips, they still stick out farther than anything else below my shoulders, and so even IWB the gun prints really badly.

So, what about appendix carry? To date, all of the arteries that get muzzled most of the time have kept me from doing that. Although in the thread 3 years ago, lots of ladies seemed to carry there.

So, I moved everything to 4:00 - 4:30, OWB. MUCH faster than any of the IWB options. As long as I stand straight there is very little printing. But with "slinkier" softer fabric tops (which are virtually all of my tops), bending over still prints. And by "bending over" I don't mean 90 degrees at the waist. (Going all the way to the ground, I do try to be lady-like and always act like I have a skirt on.) But even leaning over the counter prints pretty well.

So I would love the voice of experience from this community. If you carry on the waist, where do you carry?

Thank you for your insights!!

[BadKitty]

Notice: This post is in the Womens Forum


First off, I want to address this:

However yesterday, I was going through some advanced training with my CCW instructor, who after watching me said, "As long as it took you to present the weapon from 6:00 o'clock, from the standard 21 feet, I could have slowly walked over to you, beat the snot out of you, and raped you before you got that weapon out."

Your CCW instructor is a turd. It's one thing to express concern that drawing from your current carry location is not ideal and try to help you figure out something that would work better. It's another thing to make an overdramatic and grotesque statement. Was your draw just soooooooo slow that a man could have SLOWLY WALKED the 21 feet before you could draw? I would have told that clown to stand back 21 feet from me and try to "walk slowly" towards me to come "beat me and rape me". If I don't get my weapon out and a round off in his chest in time, I would concede his point. See if he takes you up on that offer. Clown.


Anyway, to answer your question, where to carry on the waist depends on YOU and YOU only. You are doing all of the right things, Kate. You're taking lessons, you're trying out different carry locations, you are thinking about your body type, what kind of clothes you expect to wear and what activities you might be doing while carrying. You are hitting all of the points. Good job.

So, what do you do then? You gotta just try stuff out until it works for your body and your clothing. Bottom line.

I am somewhat curvy, kinda hourglass figure. I have hips and a generous booty. I can't just stick an OWB holster on my hip at 3 o' clock. It's going to stick out horribly. Men can get away with that business because they don't have curvy hips and they wear big azz shirts.

I tried IWB at 4 o' clock and that one works "ok" for me. It didn't print too bad. Though, I had a big issue with the weapon not staying concealed when I lean over or stoop down. I also didn't like how the presentation of the weapon was a little slower. I figured that any criminal worth his salt will know what the "person reaching behind her back waistband" movement means and I didn't want to telegraph my intentions.

I tried IWB appendix carry and that worked much better. My weapon doesn't print as bad. Because only a small portion of the grip sticks out, most of my shirts, even the pretty and fitted ones, can generally conceal my weapon. Though, I'm a tall woman, I'm right-handed, and I have a long arm. I found it a little awkward to reach for appendix carry with my right hand. I was grabbing for it at "close range" and kinda looking like T-Rex arms. LOL

So....I switched to IWB cross-draw. Bingo. All the benefits of appendix carry, but now 6-8 inches over (in my waistband inbetween my belly button and left hip) allowed me to have a "longer reach" and present my weapon quickly. It's comfortable, even when sitting, and it doesn't show unless I'm reaching high up over my head and my shirt comes up.

As you already considered, the drawback of the IWB appendix and IWB cross draw carries is that you have to laser yourself and your arteries. That's something I considered carefully. I felt that all of the other pros outweighed this con and I trusted my training to help me avoid this issue.

I carry in a sticky holster! I literally just jam the weapon in the sticky holster into my waistband and nothing else. I don't wear belts and, for me, clipping an IWB holster onto a belt was too much crap hanging on my pants. If I feel that I'll need to have my weapon a little more secure (maybe because I think I might need to go jogging or the pants are too loose), then I use a belly band.

Presenting from IWB appendix or cross draw, allows me to address the threat if he is coming at me from the front or side. If an assailant grabs me from behind, I can still grab from appendix or cross draw. If an assailant grabs me from behind, and my weapon is at 4 o' clock, I will have a bear of a time trying to access my weapon with a man on my back. You see, men who get mugged typically don't have to worry about getting bear-hugged from behind. Women do. So, 3 o' clock and 4 o' clock might work great for men who carry, but not for us. I also like IWB cross draw because I can let my handbag hang in front of it which helps conceal and will also help conceal my intent to draw if a bad guy starts to approach. My hand is covered by my purse while I'm secretly reaching for the grip and I can be ready to draw if he does something funny. Also, I can still reach my weapon while in my car. It's right in front and I'm not fishing back inbetween my body and the car seat for my weapon.

Women also have options for bra carry, shoulder/armpit carry, purse carry and mid-torso (corset) carry. Those may or may not work based on your body type and clothing. I could probably do torso carry if I choose to ride my belly band higher up under a t-shirt. I do use purse carry on occasion depending on the situation. I don't have kids; but, some women with children have said that they also needed to consider the accessibility of the weapon to curious children (yes, while it's on mom's body). You also need to consider the size and type of weapon you are carry. For example, a full-size gun might not work well for IWB and that would limit your options.

Finally, to conclude my essay (LOL), again, it all depends on what you feel is best for you. If you can't stomach having your weapon pointed at your thigh, then by all means go with the 4 o' clock carry. No one will judge you for doing what's best for you. Whatever you do choose, make sure you are able to clearly articulate your choice to your CCW instructor and defend your position. Ask him to teach you to draw from your chosen carry. If he criticizes your choice or continues to use rape as an illustration to incite fear and make you draw faster, find a new instructor.

I hope some of this helps!

[movie zombie]

Notice: This post is in the Womens Forum

while I don't conceal carry I do echo what BK said about your instructor.....

and I would offer this small insight: the elbows of women are angled differently from men....something I learned in trying to bowl better.

and if this effects women and bowling, checkout this article re female/male violinists and then try and tell me that female shooters just might have issues with trying to shoot like a male: https://www.violinmusicbywomen.com/blog/elbow-gender

BK gives great insight into her experience. body shape, activities, clothing choices are so individual....and so will your conceal carry experience.

btw, great topic. glad to see you posting your experience and wanting more info.

[Kate]

THANK-YOU BadKitty, and Movie Zombie. This is really, really useful!

In defense of my CCW instructor, he is gruff, sharp, and firm. And, he is one of the most considerate, open-minded people I have ever met. He is a 70+ year old, ex-Viet Nam Black Marine drill sergeant type, whose experience and insight have helped me immensely. He is never mean. He has helped me channel my fear from a few specific experiences into a lot of work, thought, and practice. His comment, though crude, was hyperbole intended to get me to practice more to get it better or find an alternative.

Reading what I wrote, I can see how it might come across to others, but I was not insulted. Rather I took it as a measure of his concern for me.

Back to the topic: BadKitty, I will definitely try the cross draw appendix carry. I have every type of holster one can imagine (Sticky, magnetic, belly band, shoulder, purse). I haven't tried the mid-torso. I am pretty sure with the size of my chest, I would just look like a triclops or some such. But having lots of holster options has allowed me to try lots of options.

Kate

[BadKitty]

I haven't tried the mid-torso. I am pretty sure with the size of my chest, I would just look like a triclops or some such. But having lots of holster options has allowed me to try lots of options.

I have a small bust; so, the Flashbang bra holster is NOT an option for me. Carrying mid torso, like below, could still work with the right shirt.

[Kate]

Shapewear! With advantages!

OK. So there are still more options to try! Thanks again for the ideas!!

Kate

[WheelGunMagic]

Great post BK - thanks for sharing!

I appendix carry on my strong side, using a Galco contour belt - it works well in smoothing out the bumps caused by a straight belt. Carrying at the 1:30 position tucks the grips of my J frame sort of under my rib cage. It helps that my normal entire is jeans & baggy t-shirts.

Since I carry a revolver with a long, hard trigger pull, I'm careful, but I'm not as concerned about the gun being aimed at a crucial artery. I'm very, very right side dominant - however, I'm completely deaf in my right ear. Having the gun at the 3:30 - 6:00 position would put my gun in a bad place - both deaf & blind in that position.

I have a sticky holster but haven't yet tried it - thanks for the reminder. That would eliminate the need for a heavy gun belt.

Cross draw is an interesting option - gotta try it. Since I carry my purse on my left shoulder, it would help conceal the gun - especially on windy days. I also like having better access while driving - a lot of pluses to that position. Most classes won't allow it because of sweeping the folks on your left, but still, for EDC it might work well for me. Excellent suggestion BK!

[mjmagee67]

My wife likes the IWB Appendix carry at about the 11 O'clock position...give or take a little. She has a smaller waist and that position allows her not to print much. She has practiced her draw in dryfire extensively.

She uses a holster from a company owned by a woman "Well Armed Woman" and the holster has a great little clip (Utiliclip) that you can lock on to the waist band of your pant/skirt/whatever. I have used the holster/clip and will probably get one for myself. They are well made, reasonably priced, and comfortable.

[BadKitty]

My wife likes the IWB Appendix carry at about the 11 O'clock position...give or take a little. She has a smaller waist and that position allows her not to print much. She has practiced her draw in dryfire extensively.

It sounds like your wife carries in the same position I do. Just to make sure we're talking about the same things -- that 11 o' clock position is called "cross draw" since your [right] hand must reach across your body to reach the weapon. The appendix is located on the right side of one's abdomen. So, that's why the 2 o' clock position is called appendix carry.

Thank you for the reminder to dry fire practice any of our chosen draws!

[ChristinaGaines]

[Drakulya]

My wife is small 5'2" and has three different holsters she uses. She has a can can corset holster similar to the one pictures above.

https://www.cancanconcealment.com/collections/corset-holsters/Classic

She has a can can garter holster that she uses with skirts or dresses.

https://www.cancanconcealment.com/collections/garters/Classic

She also has a Garret industries Silent Thunder IWB holster for appendix carry.

http://www.giholsters.com/category-s/361.htm

We could have order the appendix carry holster but we made a mistake and order the silent thunder. It is however an excellent holster and she does carry it in appendix position. She does choose holsters based on what she is wearing and prints the least. She probably wears the can can corset the most though.

[BonnieB]

Notice: This post is in the Womens Forum

The best place to carry on the waist is where you can reach it best. Period.

You will really have to try a lot of different spots and angles. The most obvious spot is where you naturally curve in. Because I am tall and round, I have a belly and hips. Women often do. And that leaves me with an inward (concave) curve, between my belly button and hipbone. Great place to hide a gun and doesn't print in jeans at all.

I'm older than dirt, and my wrists don't turn as well as they used to, so right-side 2 o-clock appendix is best for me right now. I used to use a small-of-the-back, left-handed holster, but felt it was sweeping too much, so I stopped.

Don't let ANYONE tell you what's best for you. Do your own practicing with a snap cap and find out what you can do well, quickly and comfortably. Also, and people are welcome to differ, I think it is NUTS to carry a gun anywhere near your heart. Nuts.

And yes, you DO have to practice. And then practice every week, if only in your bedroom.

There's been a running topic on how to conceal in fitted clothes, especially yoga pants, the blue jeans of the millenials. I think it's almost impossible, you may have to consider your priorities...

(A side note: When I was first shooting, I said to my buddy ElDub1950, "What kind of a holster shall I get? I only want to buy ONE !".
ElDub, smothering a smile, says "Bonnie, EVERYONE has a whole BOX of holsters, nobody has just one!" We laughed till we cried.)

[Sarah93003]

Great information! Thank you to everyone who posted up their experiences.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

I am not female so I cannot provide personal insights. My wife carried in a Belly Band or Sticky holster at about the 4-5 o'clock position. She can draw just as fast as I can. She is pregnant now, so she is having to resort to purse carry for now.

Your instructor likely wants to help you. However, to be perfectly honest, men have no idea how many more challenges women have when concealing.

The only real advice I will offer is take the advice everyone gives you and try a bunch of things. See what works for you. Also, practice with however you decide to carry. Remember, you do not need to be at the range to practice. Obviously, make sure you unload the gun when you practice somewhere other than the range and follow the 4 safety rules.

[pink_toaster]

Appendix at... I guess it's 1200 (right in the middle of my body in front). And even that's hard for me to conceal (with a P238!) If I move it to either side the handle prints. The only time I can wear my larger guns is in an oversized sweatshirt.