Help settle a bet: Do AR15s produce a faster velocity than any given .223 rifle?

[russ69]

No, all centerfire rounds are producing gas pressure to drive bullets in any reasonable length barrel. A rimfire 22LR is finished burning at about 16 inches but centerfire cartridges are still driving bullets even after 36 inches.

[Creampuff]

Also, AR type rifles will tend to have 1 in 7 type of twist rates, and hunting rifles tend to have slower twist rates. In theory, the faster rates will have marginally slower muzzle velocity. This is all theoretical because we are talking very small differences.

[Californio]

I have a Winchester Model 70 bolt action with a 26" barrel.

The factory no-lead 35g NTX Superperformance .223 load reaches almost 4,000fps. which is much faster than any 5.56 Nato or .223 Remington round used in AR15 rifles.

Gas Guns because of their operation, moving parts, run at lower velocities and pressure, so the operating system does not get beat up and prematurely fail, bolt guns can push the limits, once the bolt is locked all the energy goes forward.

[CandG]

Carbine-length rifles are, actually, a very poor choice if your goal is to achieve maximum velocity. A .223 hunting rifle with a 24" barrel will have a superior velocity to a 16" AR, by about 300-400 ft/sec depending on the ammo.

[CandG]

It's also worth noting that 5.56/.223 is not really any faster than any other modern centerfire rifle cartridge, it's about average. And velocity does not correlate with deadliness anyways, so her main point was false even if she had been correct about her velocity point, which she wasn't.

5.56 is actually an incredibly poor choice of cartridges to pick for close-quarters against non-armored targets. This is why the MP5 and other pistol-caliber submachine guns are the weapon of choice for close quarters battle - 9mm JHP has superior terminal ballistics under 20 yards or so against unarmored targets, versus any small rifle cartridge.

My AR's are literally my last choice I'd pick for home defense.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[tbz]

Nothing about the AR platform makes a bullet travel different than the same cartridge fired out of any other rifle with corresponding specs.

[gunmunkee]

Nothing about the AR platform makes a bullet travel different than the same cartridge fired out of any other rifle with corresponding specs.

Did you read any of the previous posts?

[HooYah]

It's also worth noting that 5.56/.223 is not really any faster than any other modern centerfire rifle cartridge, it's about average. And velocity does not correlate with deadliness anyways, so her main point was false even if she had been correct about her velocity point, which she wasn't.

5.56 is actually an incredibly poor choice of cartridges to pick for close-quarters against non-armored targets. This is why the MP5 and other pistol-caliber submachine guns are the weapon of choice for close quarters battle - 9mm JHP has superior terminal ballistics under 20 yards or so against unarmored targets, versus any small rifle cartridge.

My AR's are literally my last choice I'd pick for home defense.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Absolutely incorrect. There is a reason why NSWC Crane developed the Mk18/CQBR for SOF to replace the MP5 for CQB operations. Mk262 out of a 10.3" CQBR barrel beats the piss out of anything an MP5 can shoot. This is not even a question.

[Blade Gunner]

Absolutely incorrect. There is a reason why NSWC Crane developed the Mk18/CQBR for SOF to replace the MP5 for CQB operations. Mk262 out of a 10.3" CQBR barrel beats the piss out of anything an MP5 can shoot. This is not even a question.

CQB suppressed 300 black out would be a good go to.
If you’re not concerned about mag capacity 458 socom.

[CandG]

I guess I should have specified 55gr 5.56 in my post. Of course 77gr open tip ammo with a powder load designed for shorter barrels is a better cqb cartridge than standard 55gr ball ammo.

[HooYah]

I guess I should have specified 55gr 5.56 in my post. Of course 77gr open tip ammo with a powder load designed for shorter barrels is a better cqb cartridge than standard 55gr ball ammo.

Mk262 was developed as a match round for the Mk12 SPR program, not for the CQBR as a CQB cartridge. It just so happens the OTM bullet fragments violently and dicks people up regardless of the barrel length.

[omgwtfbbq]

As noted by a few other posters, velocity in-and-of itself doesn't necessarily equal more lethality.

Force = Mass x Acceleration, so it would logically follow that increasing either or both the mass and acceleration of the projectile would increase the force it applies to a target upon impact. For the most part, this is true.

However, how that force is applied to a target and whether or no the greater force means a longer range depends on way more factors than just mass x acceleration. You have to start talking about aerodynamic, target/projectile composition/density, fluid dynamics and more.

In short, OP, you're completely right. If you put money on it, spend it wisely.

Where does the energy come from to cycle the bolt on an AR15? Where does that same energy go on a bolt gun?

This video shows a pretty good breakdown of the internal operations of the AR15. If you want to skip directly to how the gas system works, go to approximately 3:00 min. mark.


In regards to a bolt gun, because there isn't a hole that vents gas into some kid of reloading/recocking system, most of the energy goes right out the muzzle. Some of the energy is also transferred rearward into the shooter as inertia.

[Asphodel]

Hi, Bonnie,

I'm curious, have you shown your friend all the replies here?

What is fascinating is that someone would be willing to do a $100 bet with only such a vague 'memory' of 'reading something somewhere'........are we seeing the skill of propagandists in action?

It would seem dramatically obvious that your friend 'really believed'........but ohmigawd why, someone would have to be really 'quality' ignorant about guns to take such a claim seriously......and if that ignorant, has she some 'emotional issue' planted by the propagandists, of which she isn't consciously aware???.......it would be really interesting to ask her how her feelings have evolved, over recent years.

cheers

Carla

[Asphodel]

Absolutely incorrect. There is a reason why NSWC Crane developed the Mk18/CQBR for SOF to replace the MP5 for CQB operations. Mk262 out of a 10.3" CQBR barrel beats the piss out of anything an MP5 can shoot. This is not even a question.

Hello, HooYah,

Would you be so good as to translate some of those acronyms into 'civilian-speak' for us?

Most of us here are purely civilian, and, while we may speak '06 or .270, .38/.357 or 44 mag with some fluency, we tend to be a bit ignorant of ongoing weapons design/upgrades......for an example, what are the specs of the MK262 round which make it desirable for some classes of potential situations?

cheers

Carla

[Dvrjon]

Hello, HooYah,

Would you be so good as to translate some of those acronyms into 'civilian-speak' for us?

Most of us here are purely civilian, and, while we may speak '06 or .270, .38/.357 or 44 mag with some fluency, we tend to be a bit ignorant of ongoing weapons design/upgrades......for an example, what are the specs of the MK262 round which make it desirable for some classes of potential situations?

cheers

Carla

In case HooYah doesn't drop by soon:

NSWC: United States Naval Special Warfare Command - think "SEALS", and all their support elements.

Crane: Research and Development center in Indiana supporting NSWC

Mk18/CQBR for SOF: Short-barreled M-16 variation Close Quarters Battle Rifle for Special Operations Forces

MP5 for CQB operations: Heckler and Koch 9mm, compact, select-fire, battle rifle for Close Quarters Battle.

Mk262: 5.56x45, 77 Grain Sierra Open Tip Match Ammo

Best.