PPTs with multiple guns/sellers

[Tekkno]

Hi,
This question may sound confusing but I wonder if I can do PPT with different sellers with differnt guns?
To be more specific, can I buy a gun from seller A and buy a gun from seller B then get everything done in one DROS form and pay $35 only once?
Thanks in advance

[ifilef]

If a PPT seller transfers two handguns to a buyer in one meeting will it count as one sale or two?

There is apparently a CA law (the constitutionality of which may be subject to question) limiting PPT sale by non-licensees of handguns each year to 5 or 6 (I do not recall). If this is exceeded and the law is enforced as to that person he may be required to become a licensee.

[FortCourageArmory]

Yes, you can DROS guns from different sellers at the same time on one DROS fee. Each firearm is DROS'd seperately. The total cost would be $25 for the DROS fee and $10 for each gun DROS'd. In the OP's original scenario, his total would be $45. Hope that clears things up.

[kemasa]

If a PPT seller transfers two handguns to a buyer in one meeting will it count as one sale or two?

There is apparently a CA law (the constitutionality of which may be subject to question) limiting PPT sale by non-licensees of handguns each year to 5 or 6 (I do not recall). If this is exceeded and the law is enforced as to that person he may be required to become a licensee.

If you read the CA PC, it is not over 5 firearms, it is over 5 transactions, in which there can be more than one firearm.

From what I hear, the issue is not selling, but buying and and selling (acting like a dealer).

[Tekkno]

Yes, you can DROS guns from different sellers at the same time on one DROS fee. Each firearm is DROS'd seperately. The total cost would be $25 for the DROS fee and $10 for each gun DROS'd. In the OP's original scenario, his total would be $45. Hope that clears things up.

That's a very clear explanation. Thank you

[ifilef]

At least as to PPT's...

That wasn't my understanding AND I'm not a FFL.

I haven't checked the applicable Code sections but lifted this from AG website FAQ:

"20. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, in addition to the state fees, you may charge up to $10.00 or less per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:

For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgunLater: BUT SEE PC section 28240. If it's applicable to PPT then Fort Courage may be correct.

[SkyHawk]

Yes, you can DROS guns from different sellers at the same time on one DROS fee. Each firearm is DROS'd seperately. The total cost would be $25 for the DROS fee and $10 for each gun DROS'd. In the OP's original scenario, his total would be $45. Hope that clears things up.

^^^^^ DING DING DING we have a winner!!

I have done this multiple times in the past several months at several different FFLs without a problem: bought different handguns from different PPT sellers on one DROS. Sometimes I also add a lower or pistol from the FFL too. I am all about maximizing a single $25 DROS fee whenever I can. Yes you will pay $10 per PPT handgun on top of the $25 DROS, but this is all doable so long as you find a FFL that knows their business and the law.

PC 28055 doesn't say anything about long guns vs handguns. it covers them all, and specifies a $10 fee per firearm:

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/28055.html

28055. (a) For a sale, loan, or transfer conducted pursuant to this
chapter, the purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the
firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten
dollars ($10) per firearm.
(b) No other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or
transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this chapter, except for
the applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 23690
and 28300 and Article 3 (commencing with Section 28200) of Chapter 6
and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set forth in
Section 31650.
(c) The dealer may not charge any additional fees.
(d) Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from
charging a smaller fee.

[EBR Works]

FCA is correct.
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[ke6guj]

That wasn't my understanding AND I'm not a FFL.

I haven't checked the applicable Code sections but lifted this from AG website FAQ:

"20. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, in addition to the state fees, you may charge up to $10.00 or less per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:

For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgunLater: BUT SEE PC section 28240. If it's applicable to PPT then Fort Courage may be correct.

the FAQ is outdated ever since the DES system came online Jan 2014.

[kemasa]

The FAQ is well out of date due to the change in the DROS fees since it is now $25 for ANY number of firearm transactions done at the same time. A FFL can not collect DROS fee which they are not actually going to have to pay.

As said, the PPT fees for any number of firearms transferred at the same time, regardless of whether it is one or more sellers, is $25 for the DROS fee and $10 per firearm. There are occasions in which a PPT can be subject to sales tax, but that is generally not the case.

[eltee]

So, to sum this up, CURRENTLY:
1. PPT w/ one firearm = $35.00
2. Additional firearms on same DROS = $10.00 additional, each
3. The 1 in 30 handgun rule does not apply to PPTs
4. Buyer can obtain guns PPT from two sellers (or more?) on the same DROS

Sound right? I've never done a multiple seller/single buyer PPT DROS, anything special when processing it online?

[Pauliedad]

Did just this a few months back. I was the buyer for both with two different sellers.

[Condorguns]

Here's a question. How many 4473's for multiple ppt with different sellers?

[Hank Dodge]

One thing to watch out for is this new state requirement on long gun transfers to have an FSC or an exemption. My buddy did a purchase of a handgun using his valid HSC card and then wanted to add a shotgun to the same background check using his valid hunting license as an exemption. The new state system would not allow it to process. The only way that you can combine multiple guns on the same background check at this point is if you are using an FSC card or other exemption that works for BOTH gun types being listed. It's a glitch in the way the state has the DROS system set up that does not allow it to process two different FSC/HSC entries per log in. So, as it stands currently, you can only combine certain multiples on the same DROS entry at this point unless the state has chanced something in the last few days.

[kemasa]

So, to sum this up, CURRENTLY:
1. PPT w/ one firearm = $35.00
2. Additional firearms on same DROS = $10.00 additional, each
3. The 1 in 30 handgun rule does not apply to PPTs
4. Buyer can obtain guns PPT from two sellers (or more?) on the same DROS

Sound right? I've never done a multiple seller/single buyer PPT DROS, anything special when processing it online?

Each firearm has to have its own DROS. There is NO SAME DROS. There is only one DROS fee for any number of firearm transactions done at the same time.

Here's a question. How many 4473's for multiple ppt with different sellers?

One 4473 is needed, regardless of how the firearms are being transferred. All of the DROS numbers would have to be listed on it. For over 5 firearms, an additional sheet can be attached.