Let's talk about the DROS Worksheet for a minute

[JeffM]

I've been selling guns for about 6 or so years. In all that time I've never used the DROS Worksheet. With all the DES outages, I'm looking at it as a viable option to initiate sales/the DROS process if there are technical issues with submitting a DROS through the DES. I've also never been involved in taking in consignments, split PPTs, etc that I see the DROS Worksheet referenced for.

Anyone care to give a quick run down of how they process transactions via the DROS Worksheet? Any issues with using it (ie something that's come up during an audit that the DOJ didn't like - especially if they cite a violation of a certain PC or CCR).

As I understand from my very limited research, the Worksheet, for all intents and purposes, is simply a placeholder for the purchaser's or seller's info until it can be submitted via the DES. I.E. a dealer sales without DES access (e.g. gunshows, DES outage, etc.), or for the seller's info in the case of a split PPT or consignment sale, to be entered later into the DES at the time of sale with the buyer's info.

Am I missing anything here?

[Tyke8319]

How do I get copies of the blank DROS worksheet?
Copies of the most current DROS worksheet may be downloaded and printed from this website's Dealer Notices, Forms, and Information page.

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#6G

[kemasa]

It has never come up with an audit. The main issue is that you have to manually enter everything and you still have to run the CA ID/DL through the reader (it is the law). Double check EVERYTHING to make sure that you don't make a mistake.

Also check the copy of the DROS worksheet to make sure it is the more recent version.

[kemasa]

How do I get copies of the blank DROS worksheet?
Copies of the most current DROS worksheet may be downloaded and printed from this website's Dealer Notices, Forms, and Information page.
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#6G

You post was a bit confusing since you included a link, but did not mentioned that the DROS worksheet was not listed there.

If you login to the DES system and click on "Forms", you will find an old version of the DROS worksheet. It was last updated around a year ago and does not have the FSC on it.

I think you can also use the Submit DROS and print it out before submitting it.

[Tyke8319]

You post was a bit confusing since you included a link, but did not mentioned that the DROS worksheet was not listed there.

If you login to the DES system and click on "Forms", you will find an old version of the DROS worksheet. It was last updated around a year ago and does not have the FSC on it.

I think you can also use the Submit DROS and print it out before submitting it.

I see that now... DOJ must have pulled it to update the form.

I've not tried it as yet, but assuming you one could copy a DES form and have party(s) complete it manually, to include the finger print, would retaining the "work sheet" with the finger print satisfy the entry system guidelines once the "work sheet" info was entered electronically as per regulations??

[kemasa]

I think that using the DES system to enter all the information that you have, then print it, should work as a worksheet.

Yes, entering all the info would be submitting it electronically.

[auburngunsammo]

I have used it once before at a gun show. As stated earlier the entire form gets filled out by hand and as soon as the dealer has available internet you have to manually input everything in the DOJ DES system. As Kemasa also said they STILL require a drivers license swipe so when the customer comes back in to pick up the firearm (or any other time) you need to open up wordpad and swipe the ID through the reader and print a copy of the gibberish it spits out so that DOJ knows you actually had the ID AND swiped it through the reader at some point.

[JeffM]

I have used it once before at a gun show. As stated earlier the entire form gets filled out by hand and as soon as the dealer has available internet you have to manually input everything in the DOJ DES system. As Kemasa also said they STILL require a drivers license swipe so when the customer comes back in to pick up the firearm (or any other time) you need to open up wordpad and swipe the ID through the reader and print a copy of the gibberish it spits out so that DOJ knows you actually had the ID AND swiped it through the reader at some point.

Why would a photocopy of the ID not count as proof? I know the PC states that a copy counts if there is a technical problem with swiping the ID (damaged magnetic strip, etc.) Is not having a magnetic card reader available enough of a "technical problem"?

I suppose swiping the ID to wordpad to print out the info would suffice if attached to the Worksheet though and be easy enough if the shop's computer's were up and running but DES was down. What about a power outage? Can EVERYTHING be recorded manually in some way then submitted without the customer present?

[Josh3239]

We use them quite regularly. I did one today when the DES went down.

In the event the DES goes down, we do all procedures like normal except of course we use the manual DROS (DROS worksheet). Everything gets filled out, purchaser signs and thumbprints the back. As soon as DES comes back up you can DROS him. Keep the manual DROS until the purchaser can return (on pick up is acceptable) to thumbprint and sign the DROS. I shred the manual when I am done. It is simply a placeholder until the DROS is done.

On a consignment we do the acquisition on the DES, copy of ID, and a manual DROS. When the consigned guns is sold, it can be DROSed 30 days after the acquisition. Place a copy of the sellers ID and DROS worksheet into the purchaser's packet and copy that information into the seller section of the PPT. Keep the seller's acquisition packet complete and separate from the purchaser's complete consignment packet.

No issue with DOJ that I am aware of.

[kemasa]

Why would a photocopy of the ID not count as proof? I know the PC states that a copy counts if there is a technical problem with swiping the ID (damaged magnetic strip, etc.) Is not having a magnetic card reader available enough of a "technical problem"?

No, a photocopy is not proof, but is a requirement if the card reader can not read the CA ID/DL. The CA PC requires you to try to read the card.

I suppose swiping the ID to wordpad to print out the info would suffice if attached to the Worksheet though and be easy enough if the shop's computer's were up and running but DES was down. What about a power outage? Can EVERYTHING be recorded manually in some way then submitted without the customer present?

Yes, everything can be done on a DROS worksheet then submitted later.

[kemasa]

Gotta love the CA DOJ. I submitted an issue asking when the DROS worksheet is going to be updated and this is their response:

at the moment there is no estimated time as to when the worksheet will be updated.

If someone else operated like they do, the CA DOJ would press charges I suspect.

[Tyke8319]

OK, got all that...BUT.. would not the 10 days start once the info was "electronically" submitted even though you may have had the "work sheet" info...say for a week???

[kemasa]

OK, got all that...BUT.. would not the 10 days start once the info was "electronically" submitted even though you may have had the "work sheet" info...say for a week???

Yep.

[auburngunsammo]

Why would a photocopy of the ID not count as proof? I know the PC states that a copy counts if there is a technical problem with swiping the ID (damaged magnetic strip, etc.) Is not having a magnetic card reader available enough of a "technical problem"?

I suppose swiping the ID to wordpad to print out the info would suffice if attached to the Worksheet though and be easy enough if the shop's computer's were up and running but DES was down. What about a power outage? Can EVERYTHING be recorded manually in some way then submitted without the customer present?

Sorry it took so long to respond to this. I knew I read it somewhere just had to find where the DOJ hid it haha.

Here is the information:

Can I initiate a DROS at a gun show without swiping the purchaser's DMV issued driver's license or identification card if I am unable to use my DOJ-issued or privately owned PC at the show/event?

Yes. You may initiate a DROS at a gun show using a paper DROS worksheet. Upon return to your business location, you may manually input the information into your DOJ-issued or privately owned PC using the keyboard. Please remember, the 10-day waiting period does not begin until you submit the DROS to DOJ using your DOJ-issued or privately owned PC and receive a DROS number. Additionally, prior to the delivery of the firearm, you must swipe the purchaser's DMV issued driver's license/identification card through your DOJ-issued magnetic card swipe reader. Then, print out and attach the information to the copy of the DROS that is retained in your dealership records. Following this process complies with the requirement as long as the information on the purchaser's DMV printout matches the same information recorded on the DROS. Detailed instructions for this process are as follows:

Click on the Windows "Start" menu located in the bottom left-hand corner of the screen. From the "start" menu choose "Programs" then select "Accessories" then select "WordPad". Next, swipe the purchaser's DMV card through the reader and the information will automatically transfer to the WordPad screen on your PC. Finally, to print the information, choose "File" from within the WordPad program application and select "Print" and then click "OK".


And here is the link where it can be found on the DOJ website:

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#33G

[auburngunsammo]

Gotta love the CA DOJ. I submitted an issue asking when the DROS worksheet is going to be updated and this is their response:



If someone else operated like they do, the CA DOJ would press charges I suspect.

I logged in and checked today and I am able to download the DROS worksheet from the forms section of the DES entry screen