Further confusion on FFL3-CoE-C&R

[conradin]

I know that FFL3+CoE means that you can purchase C&R with more than 1 arm per month. Previously it was even cash and carry but now you have a waiting period
I am confused as to whether FFL3+CoE can also elimiate the 1 in 30 days rule for regular firearm. I read the codes but it is rather confusing. The DoJ sent my FFL shop and state that my having FF3+CoE would not matter in terms of the 1 in 30 days rule...ie I am still subject to it if I were to purchase a modern firearm.

Just want to know if this is true. Now suddenly I have to wait 2 more weeks JUST to start the DROS...rather frustrating.

[Condorguns]

DOJ no longer allows us to exempt non C&R handguns from the one in 30 day rule for C&R holders.

[conradin]

Further confusion on FFL3-CoE-C&R

OK, I have both the FFL3 and the CoE.
1. If I want to purchase a C&R pistol, can I bypass a) the waiting period b) 1 in 30 days rule
2. If I want to purchase a C&R rifle, can I bypass a) the waiting period?
3. Does C&R still mean firearms that are either in C&R list or more than 50 years old?

[Tovarish]

Yes to all of those.

1-in-30 is also waived for modern handguns if your FFL is not afraid to do it.

And you may purchase a C&R rifle from any private individual without using an FFL.

[conradin]

Yes to all of those.

1-in-30 is also waived for modern handguns if your FFL is not afraid to do it.

What does afraid mean? I know that you cannot do that...in that case do you mean this is a gray area?

And you may purchase a C&R rifle from any private individual without using an FFL.

But not out of state is that correct?

[Tovarish]

What does afraid mean? I know that you cannot do that...in that case do you mean this is a gray area?

Case in point: you know you can't do that because FFLs have been intimidated by the DOJ into not doing it. I found FFLs who knew the law and were willing to ignore the DOJ's threats and it worked for me.

But not out of state is that correct?

Out of state, absolutely, as long as you pick them up in person and the other state doesn't have a problem with it. The FFL03 alone is sufficient to satisfy the federal law against buying out of state, if it is a C&R gun. You can go to a gun show in Arizona or Nevada and buy whatever C&Rs you want and bring it here as long as you submit a volreg form after doing so.

[six seven tango]

Case in point: you know you can't do that because FFLs have been intimidated by the DOJ into not doing it. I found FFLs who knew the law and were willing to ignore the DOJ's threats and it worked for me.

I understand what you're trying to say here, but it's not really a case of intimidation. CADOJ just flat out won't allow the DROS to proceed, even thought the law explicitly allows it. If you've found and FFL that's willing to play fast and loose with his license, more power to the both of you.

OP, you can also have CA legal C&R long guns shipped directly to your front door. Just make sure you send in the self registration and $19 extortion fee.

[Tovarish]

I understand what you're trying to say here, but it's not really a case of intimidation. CADOJ just flat out won't allow the DROS to proceed, even thought the law explicitly allows it. If you've found and FFL that's willing to play fast and loose with his license, more power to the both of you.

OP, you can also have CA legal C&R long guns shipped directly to your front door. Just make sure you send in the self registration and $19 extortion fee.

DOJ allowed it to proceed when I did it last week.

I know several who are willing to do it. The DOJ is not going to terminate their license for doing something legal. What they will do, occasionally, is call the FFL and "inform" them that they've done something wrong, in the hopes that the FFL will acquiesce and let them cancel it. All the FFL has to do is say they know the transfer is legal and would like to proceed with it.

You're right that there aren't many who are willing to do that. But they're out there and the DOJ is not stopping them, as of late.

[kemasa]

And you may purchase a C&R rifle from any private individual without using an FFL.

If you purchased from a private party out of state and have it shipped into CA, then it has to go through a CA FFL (aka dealer, the terms get confusing).

If you purchase a C&R long gun from a CA resident, you have to fill out the form:

Collector's Report of Instate Acquisition of Curio or Relic Long Gun (BOF 961), pdf

I know several who are willing to do it. The DOJ is not going to terminate their license for doing something legal. What they will do, occasionally, is call the FFL and "inform" them that they've done something wrong, in the hopes that the FFL will acquiesce and let them cancel it. All the FFL has to do is say they know the transfer is legal and would like to proceed with it.

This is what is going on. The DOJ will call and the FFL has to tell the DOJ that they know it is legal, which is a bit of a hassle. It is really an idle threat, but then again who knows if the CA DOJ will keep track of those who push back, so some might not want to do it due to that aspect.

[conradin]

If you purchased from a private party out of state and have it shipped into CA, then it has to go through a CA FFL (aka dealer, the terms get confusing).

OK. the C&R Rifle is out of state right now, from a dealer. Does that mean he has to ship it to my FFL instead of me? But when my FFL receives the rifle, I will carry my FFL3 and CoE, and take the rifle out of the doors same day? Confused.

[six seven tango]

But they're out there and the DOJ is not stopping them, as of late.

I wish there were more of em...I'm sick and tired of having to wait 30 days for modern handguns.

If you purchased from a private party out of state and have it shipped into CA, then it has to go through a CA FFL (aka dealer, the terms get confusing).

Kemasa, the OP has an 03 and COE. My understanding was that he could buy a C&R long gun without the use of an 01 regardless of who or where the seller was, although he would still have to self register (BOF 961). Am I missing something? If so, what PC?

[Tovarish]

I wish there were more of em...I'm sick and tired of having to wait 30 days for modern handguns.

Ventura County is where I found them. Don't know about the rest of the state.

Kemasa, the OP has an 03 and COE. My understanding was that he could buy a C&R long gun without the use of an 01 regardless of who or where the seller was, although he would still have to self register (BOF 961). Am I missing something? If so, what PC?

Good point. I just looked through the code and as far as I can tell, FFL03+COE can still get a C&R long gun without an FFL01, regardless of whether it's in-person or shipped from out-of-state. Can anyone confirm that?

With handguns, I don't believe you can skip the FFL01 unless you pick it up in-person out-of-state.

[kemasa]

OK. the C&R Rifle is out of state right now, from a dealer. Does that mean he has to ship it to my FFL instead of me? But when my FFL receives the rifle, I will carry my FFL3 and CoE, and take the rifle out of the doors same day? Confused.

According to what I was told, it would have to ship to a FFL instead of you. You would have to have the DROS submitted, but not 4473 and would be exempt from the waiting period.

Kemasa, the OP has an 03 and COE. My understanding was that he could buy a C&R long gun without the use of an 01 regardless of who or where the seller was, although he would still have to self register (BOF 961). Am I missing something? If so, what PC?

That is what I was told by the CA DOJ. I am not sure that it is accurate, nor the CA PC, but there was a change in the law this year which changed things. I am trying to find the CA PC.

[Tovarish]

I believe the 2014 law changes were to require "voluntary" registration of long guns and possibly to require a COE in order for an FFL03 to be valid for anything. If I recall correctly, anyway...

[conradin]

Got the "official" words from the office.
Regardless of short or long, C&R arms needed to be sent to a FFL1 agent first. Upon presentation of one's FFL3 and CoE, one can take home the item.
The difference from before is that the long arm needs to be registered, hence it needs to be sent to an FFL1 first. The 1 in 30 rule does not apply to the C&R short arms.