Yet another PPT question

[jdmstuff]

***Updated on post #22***
I recently did a PPT for 2 handguns and a long gun (3 guns total from the same individual). The FFL charged $35 per gun totaling $105. I thought that since these 3 guns are on the same DROS and from the same seller, that it should have only been a single fee of $35. I understand other "fees" can be collected as long as they are not called DROS fees, but my invoice clearly states that I was charged for 3 separate DROS fees.

The FFL is also requiring me to purchase new locks for the two handguns even though the original factory locks were included with the guns. I was given the option to provide proof of purchase of two new locks when I pick them up.

I've done PPT's in the past with other FFLs, but don't ever recall paying a separate DROS fee for each gun. Is the FFL mistaken, or was I just overcharged for the transfer?

If I was being overcharged, do I have any recourse other than refusing to do business with them again?

[The Squatch]

I think they can legally only charge 10$ per gun only...35$ for first gun and 10$ for each additional firearms. Ex 35+10+10 =55$ ...that's how I understand it

[The Squatch]

Can I sell a gun directly to another person (i.e. non-dealer)?

Generally, no. This type of transaction is referred to as a “private party transfer” and must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The purchaser (and seller if the purchaser is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request but may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting the transfer. For example:

For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction.For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of up to $10.00 for each additional firearm.

[The Squatch]

The 31$ do sent apply any more because 1 dros fee per transaction.

[ke6guj]

The 31$ do sent apply any more because 1 dros fee per transaction.

corect, that FAQ refers to the law as it existed last year. with the new DES system, it should be $35 for the first firearm, and $10 for each additional firearm. an FFL friend tells me that this would apply even if you had multiple sellers and one buyer, that the way the DES system works is that the DROS stays "open" and you can additional PPTs to it, and plug in a new seller for each PPT. Since the DROS stays open, the state only gets $25, and the dealer can collect the $10 for each firearm.

[kemasa]

I recently did a PPT for 2 handguns and a long gun (3 guns total from the same individual). The FFL charged $35 per gun totaling $105. I thought that since these 3 guns are on the same DROS and from the same seller, that it should have only been a single fee of $35. I understand other "fees" can be collected as long as they are not called DROS fees, but my invoice clearly states that I was charged for 3 separate DROS fees.

They are not on the same DROS. Since 2014 each firearm requires its own DROS, but there is only one DROS fee charged for any number of firearms of any type of transfer when it is done at the same time (assuming the FFL does it properly).

The DROS fee is $25 for all three, if done at the same time. Then the FFL can charge $10 for each firearm.

It could be a problem for the FFL for charging you more than the state charges.

The FFL is also requiring me to purchase new locks for the two handguns even though the original factory locks were included with the guns. I was given the option to provide proof of purchase of two new locks when I pick them up.

Since the firearm is coming with locks, there is no requirement that you buy a lock. You could ask them if a brand new firearm came in whether they would force the person to buy a lock.

I've done PPT's in the past with other FFLs, but don't ever recall paying a separate DROS fee for each gun. Is the FFL mistaken, or was I just overcharged for the transfer?

Prior to 2014, you could transfer any number of long guns under one DROS. Handguns required a DROS for each, but there was a discount for more than one handgun. This has changed in 2014 such that each firearm requires a DROS, but there is only one fee of $25 if done at the same time.

If I was being overcharged, do I have any recourse other than refusing to do business with them again?

You can talk to them. You can call the CA DOJ. You can due them in small claims court for overcharging.

Based on what you said, the total charges should have been $25 DROS, $30 for three guns, for a total of $55.

[jdmstuff]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll bring this up to them when I do my pick up next week and update this thread.

[Baboosh]

A lot of FFLs do not realize that they can keep submitting additional guns on the same DROS fee. Each gun with have their own DROS number but they will be charged only one DROS fee.

[kemasa]

In thinking about it, it might be that they don't realize that if the click on the submit another DROS for the same person that it does not have an additional charge. It does not mention that aspect nor does it ever give a total charge for the person.

[jdmstuff]

I specifically heard one person tell the other that they have to click out and back in to "leave it open" and continue adding the other guns. Whatever that means.

[kemasa]

Once you submit the DROS, it comes up with a new screen with the DROS. At that point there is a link to print the DROS and another link to submit additional DROS for the same person. If they go back to the start, then most likely they will get billed for another DROS fee, but that is their problem. They should just click on the link for another DROS, then it comes to a page where you can select what type of DROS you want to submit.

[jdmstuff]

Is there somewhere on the DOJ's website I can access this info? The problem I forsee is that they're going to say it is what it is and I'm still going to be on the hook for the charges.

BTW, this is a well-known shop that I'm dealing with and they do have their own subforum here. I just don't want to out them until I talk to them when I pick up my guns next week.

[kemasa]

This is from the CA DOJ firearms web page

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms

Firearms Dealer Information and Tools

NEW DOJ DROS Entry System Firearms Dealership User Guide

Page 67 talk about it:

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/dros_entry_guide.pdf

See also page 60, which talks about the fees and being charged extra if they don't do it correctly. This has a picture of the links.

BTW, the FAQ was not been updated so the claim of what the fees are is incorrect.

[jdmstuff]

Thank you Kemasa.
I looked up PC28055 and it does state that the dealer can't charge more than $10 per firearm. I'll bring a copy of that with me, hopefully they won't try to BS me and tell me that it's because they ran 3 separate DROS.

[kemasa]

They have to run 3 separate DROS since each firearm needs it own DROS, but the issue is how they did it since there is only one $25 DROS fee for any number of firearm transactions done at the same time.

They may not actually know that there is only one $25 DROS fee (if they do it correctly).

If they did not read the documentation and incurred an additional charge because they did not know what they were doing, that is on them.