Undetermined Status After 30 Day Delay

[Elite Armory]

We've been getting a good amount of delays turn into "Undetermined" after the 30 days are up. What are other shops doing about this? Are you releasing them, canceling them, or what?

[ugimports]

I haven't received too many, but the 1 or 2 I did receive I released. If the state can't prove they are denied who am I to be the judge and jury.

[GunsAndAmmoGirl]

I have one "undetermined" right now that I don't feel great about releasing. I spoke to Renee at the DOJ yesterday, and she basically stated there is a reason there was a "delay" in the first place. I asked her what the repercussions would be to a dealer if we released the firearm without being approved and the person used it in a crime.... and she did not have an answer to that dilemma. She said that something bad would need to happen before they take a look-back at the new law.

Seems to me that they should get a better, quicker system to clear up the issues and not leave it up to us, imho.

[Simi-Surfer]

Do you guys see this happening for first time buyers? I have asked around and have not run into anyone that has been delayed.

[Condorguns]

I had one and released it.

[ugimports]

I have one "undetermined" right now that I don't feel great about releasing. I spoke to Renee at the DOJ yesterday, and she basically stated there is a reason there was a "delay" in the first place. I asked her what the repercussions would be to a dealer if we released the firearm without being approved and the person used it in a crime.... and she did not have an answer to that dilemma. She said that something bad would need to happen before they take a look-back at the new law.

Seems to me that they should get a better, quicker system to clear up the issues and not leave it up to us, imho.

Here's the reason I've heard of or seen delays:
1) DOJ Database sucks and they can't identify the buyer
2) Buyer has been approved for 3 firearms one in the most recent 30 days and then delayed
3) DOJ can't tell one person from another with a common name

Here's another thing to think about. The real crooks aren't doing background checks so who would you be really denying?

Ultimately, it's up to you regardless of what DOJ says though. Every business needs to do what they are comfortable with.

[Josh3239]

We've had a good amount of them. I don't know of any customer's whom we've withheld guns from, SOP is if the DOJ cannot find a reason to deny them then we are to release it. I know DOJ it trying their best to crack down on FFLs. Don't do it if it makes you feel uncomfortable, but at the same time it isn't a denial either.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Don't forget that an undetermined status can be caused by the firearm status being undetermined, not just the buyer. If the buyer is a known person to you with no prior issues, it could be the gun. DOJ WON'T TELL YOU THIS. I have had two situations thus far, both still pending, where the buyers were known to me as good to go, they made multiple purchases, one of which was a transfer, and they were delayed on that transfer, but not their other two DROS's. This immediately points to the gun as the culprit, but DOJ still won't disclose any information. Both cases were ultimately returned as "undetermined". Now what? I know the buyers are good, but not the guns, yet DOJ says I can release them at my discretion. WTF?!

Me thinks DOJ is trying to set up dealers.....

[ugimports]

Don't forget that an undetermined status can be caused by the firearm status being undetermined, not just the buyer. If the buyer is a known person to you with no prior issues, it could be the gun. DOJ WON'T TELL YOU THIS. I have had two situations thus far, both still pending, where the buyers were known to me as good to go, they made multiple purchases, one of which was a transfer, and they were delayed on that transfer, but not their other two DROS's. This immediately points to the gun as the culprit, but DOJ still won't disclose any information. Both cases were ultimately returned as "undetermined". Now what? I know the buyers are good, but not the guns, yet DOJ says I can release them at my discretion. WTF?!

Me thinks DOJ is trying to set up dealers.....

How did you confirm it was the gun? None of the instances I had were ever private party guns. They were factory new Glocks or Spikes Tactical receivers.

[Elite Armory]

We recently had one come back undetermined. We made him do a re-dros due to some other issues around it being started in 2013. When he re-drosed, he actually got delayed and then denied the second time around. We have decided not to release undetermined files.

[DEPUTYBILL]

We recently had one come back undetermined. We made him do a re-dros due to some other issues around it being started in 2013. When he re-drosed, he actually got delayed and then denied the second time around. We have decided not to release undetermined files.

So what do you do with the customer? Full refund of all money down and refund of dros fee? If the customer was not delayed or denied, and you decide not to release the firearm, that is your choice but not your customers fault.
Maybe dealers need to start withholding Dros payments to the state on those types of actions, or requesting a refund from the state if the state can't give you a clear answer.

[Elite Armory]

Refund of 100% money on the gun but you'd have to contact DOJ for the $25.

Apparently there is another option which is to get a live scan done and if it comes back clean, they will issue an approval.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

How did you confirm it was the gun? None of the instances I had were ever private party guns. They were factory new Glocks or Spikes Tactical receivers.

Each buyer had three DROS's simultaneously. Two approved, one delayed then undetermined. It can only be the gun, so I had a LEO friend run them. DOJ is worthless. They're not doing their job and willing to let stolen guns walk back out in circulation.

[Mrs Rabbit]

Refund of 100% money on the gun but you'd have to contact DOJ for the $25.

Apparently there is another option which is to get a live scan done and if it comes back clean, they will issue an approval.

I apologize for waking an old thread but.... I have a customer on a delay; he did the live scan, submitted it, received notification of nothing on record and they still have not released him. Given that I know this customer <he bought a gun from me last year and passed with flying colors>, he has the results of the live scan which show there is nothing on his record and I know the item in question is perfectly legal, I am going to release it to him.

What we found interesting is that the delay actually goes 31 days before changing to 'undetermined' which is not following the law that states they have 30 days to determine or change.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

New gun or used gun? If used, it could be the gun and not him...

As far as I'm concerned I'm not giving DOJ any reason to f with me. Unless I receive an "approved" status, the gun stays put.

It's up to you to gauge the risk for your business.