PPT (Intrafamilial) for off roster handgun

[meritman]

Ruger handgun model SR9c was just recently dropped from the approved roster. If a father in TX wants to ship it to a CA FFL and have it transferred to his daughter in CA, can this still be done since it's an intrafamilial PPT even though it's no longer on approved roster?

[ugimports]

Yes, it's an intrafamilial transfer (not a CA PPT).

[meritman]

OK, so if it's an intrafamilial transfer from TX to CA and the gun is off the CA roster, is it still OK to accept the transfer and deliver the gun? Or would it need to be a SSE to legally transfer? Thanks again for the help.

[Oceanbob]

OK, so if it's an intrafamilial transfer from TX to CA and the gun is off the CA roster, is it still OK to accept the transfer and deliver the gun? Or would it need to be a SSE to legally transfer? Thanks again for the help.

Gift guns from vertical relatives are Exempt from the roster.

As long as it isn't an assault weapon or has high cap mags, you're good.

FFL s charge more for this transfer. Find an FFL that understands the procedure and nail down a price.

[meritman]

[ugimports]

This info is more applicable to the situation:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

[kemasa]

I see, it is a semi-auto handgun Ruger SR9c, so it wouldn't have to be SSE then if a father ships it from TX to an FFL in CA to then be sold (delivered) to his daughter even though it's not on the roster, am I interpreting this correctly?

Correct. As long as there is documentation that it is an intrafamilial transfer and the FFL knows how to do it.

And is this then an intrafamilial transfer or a PPT or does it matter?

A PPT is where two CA residents transfer a firearm by going to the same FFL. If the firearm is shipped, it is not a PPT. This means the example is not a PPT.

Intrafamilial transfers of firearms within CA does not need to go through a FFL, but if the firearm is coming from outside of CA it does. There is no Federal intrafamilial transfer exemption and under Federal law, a firearm can not be directly transferred between residents of different states.

It does matter, but mainly for how the DROS is submitted.

[meritman]

Handgun coming from father in TX to son in CA. Must be shipped from FFL in TX to FFL in CA. Since it's a vertical intra-familial transfer, then the fact that the Ruger SR9c is now off-roster shouldn't matter. The son should be able to obtain possession of this gun from his dad and will still have to go through the same DROS and 4473 paperwork? Is this correct?

[Librarian]

Handgun coming from father in TX to son in CA.

1) Must be shipped (a) from FFL in TX (b) to FFL in CA.
2) Since it's a vertical intra-familial transfer, then the fact that the Ruger SR9c is now off-roster shouldn't matter.
3) The son should be able to obtain possession of this gun from his dad and will still have to go through the same DROS and 4473 paperwork?

Is this correct?

(1)(a) is your business decision; if that's how you want it, that's how it must be. No legal reason it should come from another FFL. (1)(b) is Federal law.
(2) Correct
(3) Correct; the shipped gun should also have a a letter describing the gun as a gift.

[hakuna]

What would stop some out-of-state parent from "gifting" a dozen or so off-roster firearms to a CA state son or daughter, then the son or daughter PPT's them to a CA resident? Sounds possible?

I'm NOT saying I want to do this or see it happen....just curious if it is a loophole.

Gary

[ugimports]

What would stop some out-of-state parent from "gifting" a dozen or so off-roster firearms to a CA state son or daughter, then the son or daughter PPT's them to a CA resident? Sounds possible?

I'm NOT saying I want to do this or see it happen....just curious if it is a loophole.

Gary

It's not a "loophole". But the CA Resident if they do too many will pop up on the radar as the Sacramento PD guys did and caused the bill to be introduced to limit the amount of PPTs we can do to 2 a year I believe it was. It didn't pass, but while "legal", did annoy some politician enough that they wanted to curb the unsafe handguns coming into the state.

[kemasa]

If you conduct over 5 handgun transactions per year (2 or more handguns sold at the same time is considered one transaction), you could be consider an unlicensed dealer.

Then, you could look at the parents and say that it really wasn't a gift and that they were not actually buying it for themselves (including a gift for another), which would make it a straw purchase and providing false information on a Federal form.

All of that for a few dollars. It is doubtful that you would get enough money to pay for the lawyers.

There are ways around the law, but there are also ways the government could hassle you, which would cost you time and money, as well as perhaps a free "hotel" stay.

[hakuna]

Thanks guys. I was thinking the BOE might get involved as well since you would definitely be making money doing the multiple PPTs.

For me, the bad thing would be doing anything that sparks MORE regulation in this state....

Gary

[kemasa]

Yes, there is the income aspect as well, both state and federal. If it is not occasional, you would also owe sales tax as well. Not reporting would be tax evasion.