Maybe somebody knows.....

[acespawnshop]

Ok so we are a pawn shop and had a situation arise. We had a customer pawn a handgun that is on the roster, the customer has since gone to jail and won't be returning any time soon. His mother who is NOT a prohibited person wants to redeem that firearm and keep it for her personal use.

Now, there are several issues here. We are regulated by the Penal Code and Financial Code regarding the returning of pledged property to somebody other than the borrower.

Our contracts state clearly that pawned firearms will only be redeemed to the person who pawned it. This is different than other pawned property in that there are situations where we are allowed to redeem property to somebody other than the borrower. I am unsure if this policy regarding firearm redemptions is law or just CYA.

My question is this: Can we redeem this firearm to her?

I would say that this is NOT a straw purchase in that she is not prohibited and she does not intend to give it to her son as he is in prison and will not be returning home to live with her.

Any direction here is appreciated. PC and FC would be greatly appreciated to validate our response to our customer/ his mom. I am searching PC and FC now to try and find the answer myself.

[acespawnshop]

Update... Called DOJ after spending 1 hour reading through the PC and FC. I was told by DOJ that only the person who pawned it may redeem it. Period. Mom is SOL and can't.

[ugimports]

Does that mean off to destruction or does pawned property over time become your property and then you can in theory sell it back to mom if she really wanted it?

I know nothing about the Pawn world except that I see on Pawn Stars

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Our contracts state clearly that pawned firearms will only be redeemed to the person who pawned it.

Are you saying that your shop has a different type of contract for firearms versus other types of pledged property? Do pawned firearms in your shop stay "pledged" forever? Seems like after a while you would end up with a bunch of cash tied up in guns you can't sell if that's the case.

[acespawnshop]

DOJ Said this about mom buying it back. Because it was his gun and she has told us that when he gets out of jail he will be staying with her it borderlines on a straw purchase and we 'should' stay away from it.

No, contracts for guns and everything else is the same. No pawned firearms are pledged for the same amount of time as anything else. If it forecloses its ours, 4 months and 10 days from the time its pawned if it goes un paid. Our contract states that only the person who pawned it may redeem it. This is on there for a few reasons. 1. Pawn redemptions are Roster exempt, firearm being returned to owner. 2. Its because of the FDAS we have to do on all pawned firearms. and 3. brady laws has wording in them with regards to pawn redemptions and pawned firearms. Since pawn redemptions in CA are roster exempt they do not want party A to pawn non roster gun, then have party B redeem it ***(even though a PPT would be basically the same thing)*** 4. This would be a dealer sale to mom now and not a pawn redemption and subject to sale tax collection also.

So there are a few factors to consider here but basically we have determined from talking with DOJ that its not allowable for her to "redeem it" and her buying it back borderlines on straw purchasing. The supervisor at DOJ put it this way. If the person who was arrested had his gun in his possession when he was arrested/ convicted police would have taken his firearm and would not have 'redeemed/sold/given' it back to mom.


Pawn stars! Yea it's great tv but has nothing to do with what we actually do. Aside from the occasional 'a-salt weapon' that gets sent to us or some crazy ding dong who comes in our jobs just aren't that interesting. Nothing TV worthy. *prior thread had stories from 14 years in the shops and I could only come up with 5 good ones*

[ugimports]

<snip> If it forecloses its ours, 4 months and 10 days from the time its pawned if it goes un paid. <snip>

Why 4 months and 10 days? Is there some significance to that? Or every pawn shop arbitrarily chooses what works for them?

[Tyke8319]

Here's my 2 cents.
Have mom contact son with you offer to buy the gun from him (the convict). He can always use the $$ to buy "commissary" items. If he accepts your offer have him sigh off on it and send him the agreed upon amount. If you do internet sales, sell the gun out of state.
It's a huge hassle, I know, but I see no other way....

[acespawnshop]

I don't need offer to buy gun from him. CA views the gun that is in pawn as already being mine and when a customer redeems it I'm choosing to give it back to them. In this case DOJ, ATF and I have collaborated on this and determined the following. Mom has to wait until our contract with him expires then she may purchase it for her own use. DOJ wants us to reiterate to her that if he cohabitates with her and he gains access to her firearm she will be criminally liable for what he does with the firearm, and if the firearm is not stored in a manner where he can not access it he may violate terms of his probation and go back to jail.

So Mom has to wait until his contract is up with us then hope the gun is still on the roster when its time to DROS it, if not it will go on gunbroker.com

[acespawnshop]

If the person redeeming the firearm is prohibited, what action must a pawnbroker take?
Once the DROS process has been initiated and if the person redeeming the pawn ticket is determined to be prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm, the dealer shall not return the firearm to the pawn ticket holder, but shall instead promptly deliver the firearm to the Sheriff of the county or the Chief of Police of any city or county who shall then dispose of the firearm. No other option is available to the pawnbroker in such cases. The dealer cannot take ownership of the firearm in such cases.

If the pawn ticket holder is found to be prohibited, can the pawnbroker buy the firearm from the prohibited person?
No. Pawnbrokers cannot purchase the firearm from the prohibited person, but must instead turn the firearm over to local law enforcement for disposal. As previously indicated, the DROS process must be initiated after the satisfaction of all loan requirements, thereby removing the pawnbroker from having any collateral interest in the firearm

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/infobuls/9825.pdf

Now In our case its a little different the two above FAQ's, Yes, our pawn customer is a prohibited person, however in the financial code I still have a financial interest in the firearm since he still owes me money and I'm holding it as collateral. So in this case I don't have to turn it over to PD. Unlike if dude were to come in and start his dros on his pawned gun, fails NICS and then we have to surrender it to Police Dept.

[Tyke8319]

I guess my thinking was that given the expiration of "on roster" to "off roster", it's likely that the gun will take "off roster" status and therefore most likely have to be sold out-of-state. Hypothetical, I realize........

[acespawnshop]

Why 4 months and 10 days? Is there some significance to that? Or every pawn shop arbitrarily chooses what works for them?

Because the state determines our interest rates they calculate them based on 3months and 1 additional month. So the easiest calculation for truth in lending requirements is a 4 month term. Some places do 5-6 months but 4 is the normal timeframe.

If the item is not picked up within the 4 months by law we are required to mail them a reminder notice, and the borrower gets an additional 10 days to redeem their item. Plus we charge an additional 2 1/2% plus $3.00 for the extra 10 days and notice fees. If they still don't pick it up they forfeit the rights to their property.

So essentially we say our loans are for 4 months and 10 days. To answer your question.

[Tyke8319]

I guess my thinking was that given the expiration of "on roster" to "off roster", it's likely that the gun will take "off roster" status and therefore most likely have to be sold out-of-state if not relinquished to Law Enf. Hypothetical, I realize........

[ugimports]

Because the state determines our interest rates they calculate them based on 3months and 1 additional month. So the easiest calculation for truth in lending requirements is a 4 month term. Some places do 5-6 months but 4 is the normal timeframe.

If the item is not picked up within the 4 months by law we are required to mail them a reminder notice, and the borrower gets an additional 10 days to redeem their item. Plus we charge an additional 2 1/2% plus $3.00 for the extra 10 days and notice fees. If they still don't pick it up they forfeit the rights to their property.

So essentially we say our loans are for 4 months and 10 days. To answer your question.

Thanks!

[acespawnshop]

No prob. Little insight into what we really do.

[ftcampy]

I know this has been through the wringer a couple times. If I purchased a firearm in Nov 2013 without any problems, what would cause a delayed DROS now? I went in to pick up my G19 and the dealer said there was a delay on my DROS? And on the 10th day? any ideas? Thanks for all your help!