safe requirements for ffl01

[stitchnicklas]

so next moth i have going to start my road to getting a 01ffl for gunsmith purposes.

fictitious name,then business license, then ffl application,boe permit,then all the state b.s.

what level of safe do i need for 01ffl application??? i know not a "cabinet" or some sheet-metal pos.

i plan on doing gunsmithing with very limited to no transfers or special orders,will be in-home business and not brick & mortar ,by appointment only to start then maybe small shop scale later.looking to be primarily a service based business.

was considering a 10-16 gun safe with (8) 1 1/4 locking bolts and 70min fire rating at about 550-650 dollar range.

[ugimports]

Sounds fine... that meets the legal requirement. Just remember to bolt it down!!

[stitchnicklas]

Sounds fine... that meets the legal requirement. Just remember to bolt it down!!

have a hilti hammer and will use redhead bolts

[audiophil2]

Home based? A lock on your door and windows that have a latch on the inside.
Of course, that depends on your local and state ordinances. Out here home based FFLs only need a house that locks. No safe required. It can even be a spare bedroom with a locking doorknob.

Ask your local ATF office what is typical in your area.

[Librarian]

Home based? A lock on your door and windows that have a latch on the inside.
Of course, that depends on your local and state ordinances. Out here home based FFLs only need a house that locks. No safe required. It can even be a spare bedroom with a locking doorknob.

Ask your local ATF office what is typical in your area.

California has 'guidelines' in the Penal Code -

[audiophil2]

California has 'guidelines' in the Penal Code -

So a locked house covers #1. No need for a safe from what I see.

[kemasa]

I doubt that a house would be considered to be a "secure facility" by the CA DOJ.

[gw74r]

I remember reading somewhere that the building must have bars on the windows or firearms locked in a safe. Is that right??

[ugimports]

I remember reading somewhere that the building must have bars on the windows or firearms locked in a safe. Is that right??

I remember seeing that at some point too, but it might have been part of my local city permit requirements.

[Librarian]

I remember reading somewhere that the building must have bars on the windows or firearms locked in a safe. Is that right??

I remember seeing that at some point too, but it might have been part of my local city permit requirements.

That's still there - they moved it, and I missed it when I found the other; as used in 26890(a)(1):

29141. Except as otherwise provided in Section 29142, as used in this chapter, “secure facility” means that the facility satisfies all of the following:

(a) The facility is equipped with a burglar alarm with central monitoring.

(b) All perimeter entries to areas in which firearms are stored other than doors, including windows and skylights, are secured with steel window guards or an audible, silent, or sonic alarm to detect entry.

(c) All perimeter doorways are designed in one of the following ways:

(1) A windowless steel security door equipped with both a deadbolt and a doorknob lock.

(2) A windowed metal door equipped with both a deadbolt and a doorknob lock. If the window has an opening of five inches or more measured in any direction, the window is covered with steel bars of at least one-half inch diameter or metal grating of at least nine gauge affixed to the exterior or interior of the door.

(3) A metal grate that is padlocked and affixed to the licensee’s premises independent of the door and doorframe.

(4) Hinges and hasps attached to doors by welding, riveting, or bolting with nuts on the inside of the door.

(5) Hinges and hasps installed so that they cannot be removed when the doors are closed and locked.

(d) Heating, ventilating, air-conditioning, and service openings are secured with steel bars, metal grating, or an alarm system.

(e) No perimeter metal grates are capable of being entered by any person.

(f) Steel bars used to satisfy the requirements of this section are not capable of being entered by any person.

(g) Perimeter walls of rooms in which firearms are stored are constructed of concrete or at least 10-gauge expanded steel wire mesh utilized along with typical wood frame and drywall construction. If firearms are not stored in a vault, the facility shall use an exterior security-type door along with a high security, single-key deadbolt, or other door that is more secure. All firearms shall be stored in a separate room away from any general living area or work area. Any door to the storage facility shall be locked while unattended.

(h) Perimeter doorways, including the loading dock area, are locked at all times when not attended by paid employees or contracted employees, including security guards.

(i) Except when a firearm is currently being tested, any ammunition on the premises is removed from all manufactured guns and stored in a separate and locked room, cabinet, or box away from the storage area for the firearms. Ammunition may be stored with a weapon only in a locked safe.

No, doesn't seem that an average residence is going to qualify.

But since the original question was about a safe rather than the whole facility, I beg pardon for being incomplete.

ETA that definition of 'secure facility' appears in the regulations on manufacturers, restricted to use in that chapter, and does not apply to other FFLs. I bet, however, that lots of DOJ thinks it applies to all FFLs in commercial locations, and I would not be surprised to learn that local government have adopted something like that for FFLs in their jurisdictions.

[jdben92883]

There is an FFL that works out of his home in my neighborhood. He's already had his DOJ site inspections, so I know he's GTG. He only has a $150 sheet metal cabinet. On the other hand, it's wired to independently to his alarm system and his home is alarmed. So while the "safe" is pretty menial in most people's eyes, his home as a whole is well protected. Well, actually it's not well protected, but if you crash-and-grab you're definitely going to be videotaped and you'd better move quickly!!

[audiophil2]

There is an FFL that works out of his home in my neighborhood. He's already had his DOJ site inspections, so I know he's GTG. He only has a $150 sheet metal cabinet. On the other hand, it's wired to independently to his alarm system and his home is alarmed. So while the "safe" is pretty menial in most people's eyes, his home as a whole is well protected. Well, actually it's not well protected, but if you crash-and-grab you're definitely going to be videotaped and you'd better move quickly!!

Ya. That's probably because Librarian is reading PC regarding Manufacturing. Gunsmithing, as far as I can remember, is not manufacturing and falls within ATF definition of a dealer so FFL01 only needed so CA PC 29140, 29141, 29142, and 29150 have zero bearing on the OP's question.

I'd hate to see DOJ go after all the kitchen table FFLs in CA that don't have Fort Knox style homes all of the sudden.

Of course a simple cal to CA DOJ might answer the question.

ETA
I see Librarian clarified the manufacturing part just like I researched. Tonight was the first time I bothered to look up CA PC since I am not a CA FFL so I was not aware of the secured facility definition or what it applied to. A CA FFL should know this stuff.

[stitchnicklas]

i plan on not doing transfers or sales of firearms in home,just repair/upgrade/customization from the start.if later i want to open up scope of business i can get a commercial unit for that.

so a decent safe with fire rating should be good then is what i gather from those that have given feedback.

do i even need to get on the doj listing if i am not doing sales????

[Funtimes]

That's still there - they moved it, and I missed it when I found the other; as used in 26890(a)(1):
No, doesn't seem that an average residence is going to qualify.

But since the original question was about a safe rather than the whole facility, I beg pardon for being incomplete.

ETA that definition of 'secure facility' appears in the regulations on manufacturers, restricted to use in that chapter, and does not apply to other FFLs. I bet, however, that lots of DOJ thinks it applies to all FFLs in commercial locations, and I would not be surprised to learn that local government have adopted something like that for FFLs in their jurisdictions.

Seems like G is the only problem to any of that. No?

Otherwise, guns locked, up, steel doors instead of wood (or bolt the hinges in), and alarm any windows with sonic / movement sensors.

[stitchnicklas]

i'm all set,just waiting on the $$ to arrive next week then it's forms and mailing time.
figure gonna run about $1200-1300 by the end..
fees,safe,cameras,etc..