Federal LEOs and Off Roster Handguns

[CifaldiPrecision]

My understanding is that this changes 1/1/2014 so that federal LEOs can now purchase off roaster firearms as of 1/1/14 but could not prior to that. I have an individual who is saying yes they could and using the information that on the current DROS website when under the LEO purchase section for off roster handguns there is a drop down for federal LEO - Active (which there is).

I'd like some clarification on this please.

Edit: the more I think of this the more I'm confused. My hunting buddy is a fed LEO and he purchased a g4 glock earlier this year and I know of at least 3 other purchases of off list handguns by other federal LEOs through various FFLs. I do not sell handguns I only do transfers and sell AR15 parts and my own upper halves so I rarely if ever deal with this stuff.

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[mcisniper]

I'm with you. My Fed customers are telling me the same thing but I can find any documentation saying they can purchase again.

[CifaldiPrecision]

I'm with you. My Fed customers are telling me the same thing but I can find any documentation saying they can purchase again.

I just got off the phone with the DOJ (they actually called back) and said they were not allowed to but they will be as of 1/1/14. No clue how reliable this is or what his source is. Which is why I'm asking but sharing all the info I have on the subject.


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[curvejunkie]

I just got off the phone with the DOJ (they actually called back) and said they were not allowed to but they will be as of 1/1/14. No clue how reliable this is or what his source is. Which is why I'm asking but sharing all the info I have on the subject.

I am curious as well, why would this have changed? Can someone elaborate on this?

[Soul_Cal]

Here's the short version ....

* CA PC Code only exempts "Peace Officers" - does not include Feds
* Former AG Bill Lockyer issues bulletin to grant Feds same exceptions around 2000
* Gun stores selling to Feds off-roster & hi-caps for 10+ years
* in 2013 (or maybe 2012) CA DOJ agent tells LEO stores to stop selling off-roster to Feds based on the original CA PC Code.
* Senator Wright introduces SB-363 and allows Feds to purchase off-roster again 01/01/2014.

[Librarian]

PC 32000 (b)(4) today

(4) The sale or purchase of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, if the pistol, revolver, or other firearm is sold to, or purchased by,
the Department of Justice,
any police department,
any sheriff's official,
any marshal's office,
the Youth and Adult Correctional Agency,
the California Highway Patrol,
any district attorney's office, or
the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States
for use in the discharge of their official duties.

Nor shall anything in this section prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

and (4) on Jan 1

(4) The sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by,
the Department of Justice,
a police department,
a sheriff’s official,
a marshal’s office,
the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation,
the California Highway Patrol,
any district attorney’s office,
any federal law enforcement agency, or
the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States
for use in the discharge of their official duties.

This section does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of a handgun.

There's apparently a running gag in the Legislature. Whenever someone wants to change a bit of Penal Code regarding guns, if the current version says "handgun", replace with "pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" and vice-versa.

[CifaldiPrecision]

Federal LEOs and Off Roster Handguns

Usually this stuff is pretty cut and dry once the proper codes are found but this one just has me befuddled. Obviously it's a no issue come jan 1. But like soul cal said FFLs have been doing it for 10+ years so my concern is what happens during an inspection? Guessing get hit with a violation depending on the inspector.


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[Librarian]

Usually this stuff is pretty cut and dry once the proper codes are found but this one just has me befuddled. Obviously it's a no issue come jan 1. But like soul cal said FFLs have been doing it for 10+ years so my concern is what happens during an inspection? Guessing get hit with a violation depending on the inspector.


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Hard to tell.

I don't recall the Lockyer info, but if it were shared with CA FFLs, then that would be the the 'written authorization'. If the policy changed, for FFLs to know it had changed, there should have been a corresponding 'Hey, remember Lockyer's letter? We changed our mind' letter. CD Michel notes that Kamala apparently said that to someone.

The information bulletins for FFLs are on-line at https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls, and I don't see either the 'yes federal officers are exempt' bulletin [ ETA Soul_CAL found it, see below ] nor any cancellation of that.

[CifaldiPrecision]

Hard to tell.



I don't recall the Lockyer info, but if it were shared with CA FFLs, then that would be the the 'written authorization'. If the policy changed, for FFLs to know it had changed, there should have been a corresponding 'Hey, remember Lockyer's letter? We changed our mind' letter. CD Michel notes that Kamala apparently said that to someone.



The information bulletins for FFLs are on-line at https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls, and I don't see either the 'yes federal officers are exempt' bulletin nor any cancellation of that.

Thanks Librarian.


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[Soul_Cal]

Here's a link to the bulletin:

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/infobuls/0006.pdf

and an excerpt:

Effective immediately, federal peace officers whose agencies have congressional authority to carry and use firearms may with a letter signed by the head of their agency or the agency head’s designee purchase duty weapons and/or large capacity magazines and be afforded the same exemptions that apply to California peace officers. The federal agency letter authorizing the purchase of a duty weapon must specify the firearm make and model that the officer is authorized to purchase. Consequently, federal peace officers who meet the above criteria may now purchase firearms from California firearms dealers and be exempted from the state mandated ten day waiting period. Additionally, these same individuals may now also purchase large capacity magazines provided they have agency authorization. Please note that although state and federal peace officers are exempt from the DROS waiting period, they are not exempt from the DROS paper work requirements.

[CifaldiPrecision]

Federal LEOs and Off Roster Handguns

So my understanding of the two (old and new) PC is that these are for duty use. If these guys are buying these for personal firearms knowing that they will never be used for duty then there lies another issue but obviously that's on them since they aren't stating otherwise.

Due to this statement "for use in the discharge of their official duties."

The letter just posted by soul makes that issue a little more difficult due to the agency letterhead. But my understanding is that the letter is to bypass the 10 day wait not the off roster firearm under normal circumstances. If that normal circumstances even exists since the quote "for use in the discharge of their official duties." Even applies to CA LEOs.

Or does this statement "This section does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of a handgun." Which immediately follows the previous statement give justification for off duty purchase?

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[Librarian]

Here's a link to the bulletin:
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...obuls/0006.pdf

Thanks - wasn't looking that recently, and got tired of reading them!

The department letter went away with http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo, but there is no date on that archive copy. PC says for duty use; that policy seems to have eliminated any verification.

[lugnutwrench]

As near as I can tell, there's no "reason" code for the exemption that is available via the new DROS system. Under exempt handguns, there are two fields which seem relevant. They are:

Waiting Period Exemption
Available options:

• CFD NUMBER
• PEACE OFFICER (LETTER REQUIRED)
• SPECIAL WEAPON PERMIT

(Handgun) Category
Available options:

• 4 OR MORE BARRELS
• BOLT ACTION
• DERRINGER
• DOUBLE BARREL
• LEVER ACTION
• OVER AND UNDER
• REVOLVER
• SEMI-AUTOMATIC
• SINGLE SHOT
• THREE BARRELS

I assume that for qualifying LEOs, one would select:

Waiting Period Exemption: PEACE OFFICER (LETTER REQUIRED)
Category: SEMI-AUTOMATIC (or whatever was appropriate)

With the make, model, serial number, etc., properly filled out.

[ShootinXs]

This is something I have not had to deal with till now but , I have a customer that is Border Patrol which is a fedral program , and is asking about a off roster handgun but for personal collection , as they can only use what there issued he would not have a agency letter for my paperwork . Can this transfer be done ? He would wait the ten days and have agency ID .