FFL transfer question re interesting facts

[ifilef]

This is why I 'enjoy' doing PPT's in comparison to FFL transfers....What a pita.

Okay, I am selling my Taurus PT92 AFS here.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=845509

I like doing PPT's because it avoids a lot of the roster legalities, hassle, time and expense involved doing a FFL transfer.

Facts giving rise to this thread:

1. Gun was sold new to me, a CA resident, by FFL. Gun was on roster, or grand-fathered in at that time. At that time, magazine drop safety requirement did not apply to my particular firearm. Gun does NOT have a MDS.

2. Now I have a potential buyer in another part of the State which makes doing a PPT impracticable.

3. Gun is still on roster but I just don't know if this would be legal or not to do a FFL transfer.

Remember this gun model was on roster at time of purchase and now, too.
It just doesn't have the MDS.

Open to your viewpoints/opinions. Thanks in advance!

[Librarian]

If that exact gun is on the Roster, then it is legal to transfer either PPT or dealer-to-buyer.

[BONECUTTER]

1. Gun was sold new to me, a CA resident, by FFL. Gun was on roster, or grand-fathered in at that time. At that time, magazine drop safety requirement did not apply. Gun does NOT have a MDS.

Does not matter.

2. Now I have a potential buyer in another part of the State which makes doing a PPT impracticable.

You can always send to a dealer who can SSE it if its off roster.

3. Gun is still on roster but I just don't know if this would be legal or not to do a FFL transfer.

Remember this gun model was on roster at time of purchase and now, too.
It just doesn't have the MDS.


This would be the important part. If you know the gun currently on the roster was tested with a magazine disconnect yours is off roster and would need to be PPT'd or some other means.

If you don't know call Ruger and ask. The receiving dealer may do the same and if they tell him there has been a varaiation (even like you installing wood grips) its not off roster and they can't plead dumb and just select the one on the DROS drop down.

[ifilef]

This appears to be my gun as it appears on the current roster:

PT92 (Stainless w/Rail) / Aluminum Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9mm 6/20/2014

What does the current roster reflect? That is the question...

I do not believe it could be sold as a new gun but it is a used gun that appears to be on the roster.

But if dealer had in stock and was New Old Stock without MDS could he sell it to a customer? I thought there was some grand-fathering involved.

Does the roster only apply to sales of new guns?

[ifilef]

"Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement."

[BONECUTTER]

This appears to be my gun as it appears on the current roster:

PT92 (Stainless w/Rail) / Aluminum Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9mm 6/20/2014

What does the current roster reflect? That is the question...

I do not believe it could be sold as a new gun but it is a used gun that appears to be on the roster.

But if dealer had in stock and was New without MDS could he sell it to a customer? I thought there was some grand-fathering involved.

Does the roster only apply to sales of new guns?

If the gun on the roster does not have a magazine disconnect when certified its fine. Call Ruger and give them your serial number and they should be able to tell you.

[ifilef]

If the gun on the roster does not have a magazine disconnect when certified its fine. Call Ruger and give them your serial number and they should be able to tell you.

Any particular reason that I should call Ruger instead of Taurus?

[BONECUTTER]

Any particular reason that I should call Ruger instead of Taurus?

My mistake. I had been dealing with a similar thing with Ruger and stuck in my head.

[ifilef]

Yeah, that's okay.

Appreciated your other input!

My understanding is the Roster fee must be paid every year or dropped from the list, and if a grand-fathered model is without a magazine safety, and renews timely, can the manufacturer continue to make them and export them into CA without the MDS, etc?

I am not an FFL

[ifilef]

If that exact gun is on the Roster, then it is legal to transfer either PPT or dealer-to-buyer.

That appears to be the case, as I noted in post #4, above.

So, whether it has MDS or legally sufficient LCI would be irrelevant for purposes of doing a FFL transfer?

I have a feeling my gun was grandfathered in, and they just keep renewing it, which is smart, so then they don't have to change the design. All speculation on my part, of course.

I am 'on hold' trying to speak to someone at Taurus about this whole issue with the particular firearm that I have for sale.

[ifilef]

Gun is on Roster and lack of features is grandfathered in. They don't even manufacture it with a MDS. I confirmed this with 'Woody' at Taurus.

So, my conclusion that is reached is: doesn't matter if has a MDS or not if listed on the Roster.

Seems that Librarian's answer is the most correct and concise. I should be able to do this as a FFL Transfer. Good to know.

Thanks, Librarian!

[Librarian]

So, whether it has MDS or legally sufficient LCI would be irrelevant for purposes of doing a FFL transfer?

I have a feeling my gun was grandfathered in, and they just keep renewing it, which is smart, so then they don't have to change the design. All speculation on my part, of course.

That's it exactly.

The requirements such as 'loaded chamber indicator' are for getting on the Roster in the first place; once on the Roster (the way the law has been from the beginning, subject to change!) new requirements are not retroactive.

See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/The_Safe_Handgun_List