Undetermined?

[acespawnshop]

Ok. So I finally got around to reading the letter DOJ sent out regarding the new DES. It says with AB 500 legislation if DOJ is unable to determine the eligibility of a purchaser the dealer may release that firearm within 30 days. My question is how would one comply with ATF regarding the NICS check?

On the 4473 question 21c is for delays, and question 21d is for response after delay. Would one check "no resolution was provided within 3 business days" Box?

If we release a firearm after the AB 500 30-24hour periods are we in compliance with federal laws regarding the NICS checks?

Does anyone have any insight for me on this one?

[ugimports]

Ok. So I finally got around to reading the letter DOJ sent out regarding the new DES. It says with AB 500 legislation if DOJ is unable to determine the eligibility of a purchaser the dealer may release that firearm within 30 days. My question is how would one comply with ATF regarding the NICS check?

On the 4473 question 21c is for delays, and question 21d is for response after delay. Would one check "no resolution was provided within 3 business days" Box?

If we release a firearm after the AB 500 30-24hour periods are we in compliance with federal laws regarding the NICS checks?

Does anyone have any insight for me on this one?

Good question. In reading the 4473 more it seems like we would now use the MDI field and put 30 days after DROS starts. I guess we would select the no resolution box after the 30 days ... i don't really know though :| and DOJ would be useless for the federal form.

[BONECUTTER]

I would guess you would treat it like an approval after delay. The approval would come when they cannot determine on the 30th day so that would give another 30 days to deliver federally. I'm guessing.

[SniPeralez]

Speaking of "Delayed" check this one out, and he never got an answer from them as to why on the delay when he called them numerous times.

[ugimports]

Speaking of "Delayed" check this one out, and he never got an answer from them as to why on the delay when he called them numerous times.

I have a guy on delay from January 2013 that had just picked up a firearm December 2012. He's still not been given the Approval after Delay yet..

[SniPeralez]

WOW!

[VegasND]

Crazy crazy stuff in this thread.

I used to believe people wouldn't put up with abuse like this; now I know people will eat anything the government feeds them.

[ugimports]

Crazy crazy stuff in this thread.

I used to believe people wouldn't put up with abuse like this; now I know people will eat anything the government feeds them.

? Not sure I follow. The customer I was speaking about tried calling DOJ for a few months before they gave up. DOJ tells them nothing and they have no documented course of action to take other than trying to sue. I think enough crap happened this past year that caused the DOJs new rule to go into effect which means that a delay will no longer last more than 30 days once the new rules are in effect.

I guess my ? is that I'm not sure what you would expect people to do? It's not like they were given a phone number to call and then did nothing. All the customers I've known about try calling... a lot, until they get through, but they are told nothing.

[VegasND]

You don't follow me saying that government should not be allowed to act with such disregard for the citizens Rights and then you comment that the only course of action open to them is to file suit?

As I said - I now believe there is no action government can take that people won't find a way to rationalize and convince themselves it's acceptable.

? Not sure I follow. The customer I was speaking about tried calling DOJ for a few months before they gave up. DOJ tells them nothing and they have no documented course of action to take other than trying to sue. I think enough crap happened this past year that caused the DOJs new rule to go into effect which means that a delay will no longer last more than 30 days once the new rules are in effect.

I guess my ? is that I'm not sure what you would expect people to do? It's not like they were given a phone number to call and then did nothing. All the customers I've known about try calling... a lot, until they get through, but they are told nothing.

[ugimports]

You don't follow me saying that government should not be allowed to act with such disregard for the citizens Rights and then you comment that the only course of action open to them is to file suit?

As I said - I now believe there is no action government can take that people won't find a way to rationalize and convince themselves it's acceptable.

The part I don't follow is what you would expect to happen and what about our actions is meaning that we think this is acceptable. The citizens that are impacted do not find it acceptable. I don't think it's acceptable either. Other than a lawsuit or voting people out which we try to do, what else is there to do? Please help me understand (because apparently I don't) what an individual should be doing to prove to the world they do not find this situation acceptable. I am too dense to see past voting and lawsuit.

[VegasND]

I see where the failure to communicate is. I think I was unclear about who I thought would object to government infringements.

I used to believe that the 'majority' of those who vote ( people who, in my mind, were responsible ) would finally decide government had grown too large and infringed too much.

I now believe I was mistaken about people ( in general ) and how much government interference they will put up with.

You are right that those who are directly damaged by the government are upset but they aren't a large enough number to effect real change.

I wasn't accusing you or your client of doing anything wrong; my observation was directed to 'the people' in more general terms.

Realistically, you have probably done all that is available to you without entering into an expensive legal battle.

I see no density on your part.