DROS twice for same gun?

[solarmax]

Hi all,
I was directed here for a DROS question I needed answers for....so here I am and I need your help.

So, I bought a rifle from a LGS brand new in box. I DROS'd it and within the 10 day waiting period I was approved. Went in, picked up my toy and took it home. After taking to the range, I found that the rifle was broken (firing pin)

I sent it back to the manufacturer. They said I they could not fix it and gave me a new replacement rifle. Cool, right? So they send it back to my LGS and then my LGS tells me I need to re-DROS it because it has a new serial number.

1.) is this true? For new serial number, do I need to get re-DROS...even if it was a replacement rifle?

So the story goes on...I re-DROS it and the DOJ puts a hold/delay on my DROS!

So mind you, my first DROS approval and my 2nd DrOS delay was about a month and half apart. No issues with any law between that time. I have a clean record...my DMV is up to date ....so not sure why I would get delayed...

So did I need to re-DROS? And why would I get a delay all of a sudden when they approved me a month prior?

If I didn't have to re-DROS, is there some legal site you can direct me to so I can print it out and show my LGS to get my rifle back without going thru DROS hassle?

Thanks

[halifax]

New firearm will require a new 4473 and DROS. No way around it.

[acespawnshop]

New firearm will require a new 4473 and DROS. No way around it.

Yep. You should see if they will pay the DROS fees for you though. Since you bought it NIB and didn't get the item you wanted in the first place. They should.

[allpoint]

Yep. You should see if they will pay the DROS fees for you though. Since you bought it NIB and didn't get the item you wanted in the first place. They should.

acespawnshop I'm curious who they is. Is it the manufacturer or the LGS?

[solarmax]

They told me to go back to the manufacturer for DROS reimbursement.

Ok that's fine...but also does anyone know why I could have gotten a delay?

Funny thing is that I DROS another new rifle at a different LGS the day before I re-DROS the replacement rifle. About one day apart...and guess what, I didnt get a delay on the new DROS rifle from the DOJ, but I did get a delay from the replacement rifle...how whacky is that? I don't understand...sigh...

[acespawnshop]

I would ask the manufacturer to help with the cost since you have to re-dros, re-4473, re-10 day hold.

Ok that's fine...but also does anyone know why I could have gotten a delay?

Wow sounds whacky to me. I wouldn't know about a delay on Rifle 1 but not Rifle 2. Crazy. Let us know what the reason was.

[acespawnshop]

OOh forgot about the cost to transfer from the LGS. They probably wont do it for free either.

[Steve_In_29]

Could one of you FFLs post a link to the appropriate law that states a warranty return RIFLE needs to be reDROS'ed? Or that it needs to be on another 10 day hold? Why would a serial number change require a new DROS when the serial number isn't on the DROS Form to begin with? Why would a 4473 be needed since the OP didn't get a second rifle they merely swapped one for the other?

I had two warranty returned pistols (one even made the trip twice) that were sent directly to my home with no FFL involvement (in either direction on my end).

I have had another two warranty replaced pistols that while they understandably in CA needed to be reDROS'ed due to new serial numbers, were not subject to a 10 day hold since they were warranty returns. My FFL showed me the block on the form to annotate it as such. The manufacturers told me that if I wasn't in CA that they would have both simply sent the new pistols to me directly without any FFL involvement on my end.

I had a warranty return rifle (same serial number) that was shipped directly to me from Ruger without any FFL on this end and obviously without any 10 day hold.

I have a feeling that had the OP shipped the rifle back to the manufacturer himself instead of utilizing Turner's that the manufacturer would have simply sent him the rifle directly with no DROS requirement.

Please show me if I am misinformed.

[acespawnshop]

The OG poster says "I sent it back to the manufacturer. They said I they could not fix it and gave me a new replacement rifle"

Here's how it works. Once you dispose of a firearm in my A&D book I can't give this person another different gun without doing another 4473. CA law requires that a new firearm purchase,as this would be considered, will require a dros and 10 day waiting period. This would be 1 in 30 exempt though.

Repairs may be sent directly to a manufacturer from a private individual and that firearm may be returned without using a FFL as long as it is the same gun. Same serial. Just like happened to you.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html#atf-f-4473

Here it is in the CA PC: 12071 has to do with the 10 day waiting period exemptions. Since federally there is no waiting period you wont find this from ATF or the US Code.

Section 12071, subdivisions (c) and (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply to the delivery of a firearm to a gunsmith for service or repair, or to the return of the firearm to its owner by the gunsmith.

So there is no confusion here. This is saying that a firearms being returned from a gunsmith for repair is exempt from the 10 day wait.

In his OG post he states that they couldn't repair his gun and gave him a different one. To comply with federal law that manufacturer has to dispose of that firearm in their bound book. They can only dispose of it to another FFL or to an individual with a 4473.


So if he sent it back and got back the SAME gun it wouldn't be an issue. The issue here is that they could not repair that same firearm and replaced it with a different one. In the eyes of the ATF or DOJ they don't care that you just did a waiting period, dros, and 4473. They consider this to be a new firearm, like it is, and subject to all normal laws that a new firearm purchase has.

[Steve_In_29]

So the reps from both Ruger and Para-Ord were mistaken when they told me that, had I not lived in CA, they would have simply shipped the replacement pistols directly to me without an FFL on my end?

[Steve_In_29]

This brings up another question then. If they are going to treat a replacement gun (rifle/pistol) as an entirely new purchase how does it work if the weapon is no longer legal in CA? Such as my Ruger SR22 pistol (which was one of the ones I had replaced) that just dropped off the DOJ list or after 1 Jan 14 all those semi-auto rifles?

How can you reDROS something that is illegal in CA?

[solarmax]

I have a feeling that had the OP shipped the rifle back to the manufacturer himself instead of utilizing Turner's that the manufacturer would have simply sent him the rifle directly with no DROS requirement.

Please show me if I am misinformed.

Just FYI, I gave it back to Turners, who in turn sent it to Ruger. Ruger then sent a brand new rifle back to Turners who then Dros's me due to the new serial number at which point the DOJ put a hold/delay on my Dros. Now it is sitting in the back room of Turners store collecting dust...

[solarmax]

Does anyone have an alternate phone number to the California DOJ?

I tried calling but all I get is an answering machine. Nobody every picks up. It goes straight to voice mail. I read where people are talking to a live person at the DOJ....not sure what number they are using.

[Steve_In_29]

Just FYI, I gave it back to Turners, who in turn sent it to Ruger. Ruger then sent a brand new rifle back to Turners who then Dros's me due to the new serial number at which point the DOJ put a hold/delay on my Dros. Now it is sitting in the back room of Turners store collecting dust...

You do know you didn't have to have Turner's do the shipping right? You can actually utilize the Post Office to ship a rifle. What did Turner's charge you for letting them ship it? I would have liked to see what would have happened had you sent the rifle back yourself.

[ke6guj]

So the reps from both Ruger and Para-Ord were mistaken when they told me that, had I not lived in CA, they would have simply shipped the replacement pistols directly to me without an FFL on my end?

A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person the firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind and type