My first denial - Sell it to his girlfriend?

[Boogaloo]

I just got my first denial. I got the call from the DOJ on Saturday as I was coming home from a day of shooting with the son in law.

I immediately called the customer who is a friend, and told him to stop what he was doing and call the number I gave him. He did, and it turns out it is legitimate. He had an arrest nearly 10 years ago that resulted in a misdemeanor charge, and that is that.

Now, the customer wants to have his girlfriend buy the gun (Glock 17), and I am really uncertain how to proceed. I actually work with this guy, and he is a good dude. He was at a big gathering, got pushed around by some drunk guy, defended himself, and ended up getting arrested (10 years ago this February).

The person he spoke with at the DOJ advised him that his restriction will be lifted on February 14th of 2013 (a couple months from now) but he wants to have his girlfriend by the gun now, and he will buy another gun in February when he is free and clear. I called the DOJ back and repeated what the customer told me, and they said they did not feel this was an issue since the girlfriend is just another person, and that they have no control, concern or advice on that issue.

How would you proceed? Should I go ahead and DROS the girlfriend and sell it to her? or advise the customer to just wait until February until the restriction drops off? He is pretty clear with me that he wants the girlfriend to just buy it. I told him I need to wait for clarification before I proceed.

Would love some quick advice fellas. Thanks!

[bohoki]

cancel sale and refund, if she wants to buy a gun have her come in and pick one out

[Boogaloo]

cancel sale and refund, if she wants to buy a gun have her come in and pick one out

All fine and good, but what if she "coincidentally" picks out the same Glock 17 ?
Are you suggesting that as long as I cancel the sale and refund the deposit (with paper trail) that I effectively eliminate any possible "straw purchase" implications?

Also, there is a bit of a hang up here because I am a special order salesman when it comes to Glocks. I purchased this from a distributor AFTER the client payed me to make the purchase. If I refund him everything but the DROS fee, I am basically stuck with the Glock unless I hold it until February (when his restriction clears).

[bohoki]

All fine and good, but what if she "coincidentally" picks out the same Glock 17 ?
Are you suggesting that as long as I cancel the sale and refund the deposit (with paper trail) that I effectively eliminate any possible "straw purchase" implications?

Also, there is a bit of a hang up here because I am a special order salesman when it comes to Glocks. I purchased this from a distributor AFTER the client payed me to make the purchase. If I refund him everything but the DROS fee, I am basically stuck with the Glock unless I hold it until February (when his restriction clears).

how many glock 17s do you have in stock it would be good if it was a different one

like the bafte says "know your customer"

if it smells fishy don't risk you lively hood tell them to go to a specific competitor politely and explain you are not comfortable doing buisness with them

[Boogaloo]

how many glock 17s do you have in stock it would be good if it was a different one

like the bafte says "know your customer"

if it smells fishy don't risk you lively hood tell them to go to a specific competitor politely and explain you are not comfortable doing buisness with them

Thanks for the reply bohoki,

As I mentioned, this is a guy I work with, he is actually someone I consider to be a pretty good friend. I have worked with him for the past 2 years now, and I know this is not going to be a straw purchase. The gun was originally intended to be for the girlfriends personal protection while her man is at work, sometimes until 4 or 5 in the morning. His idea was he would buy this gun, get her comfortable shooting it, and it would be their home defense firearm.

They live together, and are engaged to be married. If she comes in and buys any other gun, it is going to be where he can have access to it no matter what gun they choose. Their plan was to get this gun, get her trained and comfortable with it, and then buy a rifle next, or perhaps a shotgun.

I have been nurturing this guy for several months leading up to this, and was very clear with him when I asked him if he had a clean history. He did not think that his nearly 10 year old fight was going to be an issue. He was 18 then, he is 28 now.

I will call the BATFE tomorrow and get their take on it, but was hoping I could get some clarity here as well....

Thoughts ?

[RileyBean]

I think it is a clear straw purchase. Tell him to wait until he can buy it himself.

[bruss01]

I agree - This is only 3 months. That is not too long to wait. If you are such close friends, you can loan the girlfriend one of your personal guns (providing she has a valid HSC). It is HER job to make sure he does not have access to it until he is clear.

DOJ may be baiting you. After you called them I would bet anything you have a "surprise" audit in the next few months. Be prepared, have everything in order and above reproach.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Sounds like a straw purchase to me. However, you can ask her over and over again while she is filling out the paperwork who the gun is really for. If she says for the boyfriend, cancel it and then educate them how the process works. If she keeps swearing it is for her, then that is about all you can do.

I will tell you this. When I have been audited, the ATF wants to know who my denied guns go to. So Jan from the Fresno office comes in and wants copies of all of the 4473s where denied guns went to.

So this Glock 17 gets denied, they want to find out who got it eventually. It would be interesting for them to find out it is in the same house it was denied from and that you knew about it.

I would pass.

[echoarms]

Sounds like a straw purchase to me. However, you can ask her over and over again while she is filling out the paperwork who the gun is really for. If she says for the boyfriend, cancel it and then educate them how the process works. If she keeps swearing it is for her, then that is about all you can do.

I will tell you this. When I have been audited, the ATF wants to know who my denied guns go to. So Jan from the Fresno office comes in and wants copies of all of the 4473s where denied guns went to.

So this Glock 17 gets denied, they want to find out who got it eventually. It would be interesting for them to find out it is in the same house it was denied from and that you knew about it.

I would pass.

I got a denial for expired DL on a customer, he sorted out his info with DMV and passed the next background check. Something like that is totally in the green correct?

[paul0660]

Three posts by the OP, new pertinent info in each one.

[Laythor]

it sounds like you have reservations about making this sale, listen to your gut.

[Tubbie]

"I called the DOJ back and repeated what the customer told me, and they said they did not feel this was an issue since the girlfriend is just another person, and that they have no control, concern or advice on that issue." So, what's the problem?

All you need to do is take care of the paperwork as required by DOJ. You're performing a legalized business transaction in accordance to the laws of the state.

[kemasa]

Just don't do it. It will cause you problems. Let them wait until Feb. 2013 or use another FFL. It is not worth the money for the possible problems.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I got a denial for expired DL on a customer, he sorted out his info with DMV and passed the next background check. Something like that is totally in the green correct?

Yes. If a customer gets denied, but answers all of the 4473 and DROS questions correctly, you did nothing wrong. If the customer comes back in and says they should pass now and you run them again, you have done nothing wrong.

[tenpercentfirearms]

"I called the DOJ back and repeated what the customer told me, and they said they did not feel this was an issue since the girlfriend is just another person, and that they have no control, concern or advice on that issue." So, what's the problem?

All you need to do is take care of the paperwork as required by DOJ. You're performing a legalized business transaction in accordance to the laws of the state.

What about the BATFE? They definitely have straw purchase rules which this sounds like one and is illegal.

Are you even an FFL?