Hypothetical question regarding SSE/FFL

[Quip]

Found my answer. Thanks Cal-guns!

[DEPUTYBILL]

I will put in my take. What type of sale? If it is a consignment gun sale I do not think there is any problem. If it is a PPT sale,there is no problem. If it is an off roster SSE sale,to my knowledge,there is not a problem,but DOJ has never came out and said SSE sales are legal or prohibited. The take I have on it is that it is legal. But that is not to say that the DOJ may change it's mind,or a new law may come out to change it.

I am not sure if a Dros sale of an exempt gun to a non-LEO will cause a delay in the transaction or not. I would think a incorrect sale would cause problems to the dealer from DOJ. DOJ also might to action to take the gun back from the customer.

[kemasa]

I heard of a case where a FFL sold, not a PPT (consignments can be transferred as a PPT), firearm which was not on the certified list, the firearm had to be returned. I don't recall more, but somehow the DOJ found out. I am not sure that the customer could be forced to return it, but who knows.

[Mrs Rabbit]

Honestly unless it is a PPT I fail to see how it could be done 'legally'. To DROS an off roster you have to show the exemption type.

Unless I'm missing something here??

[Quip]

Thanks for all the replies. I think my friend might be in this situation. Lol

[ke6guj]

I heard of a case where a FFL sold, not a PPT (consignments can be transferred as a PPT), firearm which was not on the certified list, the firearm had to be returned. I don't recall more, but somehow the DOJ found out. I am not sure that the customer could be forced to return it, but who knows.

I recall that a couple years ago Glock came out with an ambi-mag release version on their guns, which was considered off-roster). CADOJ sent out letters to the buyers requesting them to return them to be swapped out for a std-mag release, but there was no mandatory recall.

[kemasa]

Honestly unless it is a PPT I fail to see how it could be done 'legally'. To DROS an off roster you have to show the exemption type.

Unless I'm missing something here??

If the firearm is converted to a single shot, meeting the dimension requirements, then it would also be exempt, which would not be required to be a PPT.

[keenkeen]

It happens...

Chances are the FFL makes an error and DROS an "off-list" model as an different (but similar) rostered model. This would not be discovered unless the DOJ did their audit during the 10 day waiting period.

After that the gun in gone (to the buyer) and the paperwork shows the sale of a rostered handgun.

[kemasa]

I recall that a couple years ago Glock came out with an ambi-mag release version on their guns, which was considered off-roster). CADOJ sent out letters to the buyers requesting them to return them to be swapped out for a std-mag release, but there was no mandatory recall.

I suspect that is what I was thinking about. The funny thing is that the std-mag release could be replaced later back to how it was when it was transferred.

[kemasa]

Chances are the FFL makes an error and DROS an "off-list" model as an different (but similar) rostered model. This would not be discovered unless the DOJ did their audit during the 10 day waiting period.

I am not sure if the DOJ ever does a check of the firearm since it would require that they ask the manufacturer whether the firearm with a specific serial number was actually a specific model or not. I have to wonder if a manufacturer would actually provide the information as well.

It is very easy to make a mistake and select the wrong firearm or think that it actually was on the list.

[keenkeen]

Basically my friend buys gun, waits his 10 days and picks it up. He showed me his new purchase and I knew right off the bat it was off-roster. I scanned the barcode with my iPhone and sure enough it comes up as a off-roster handgun. So I guess it does happen.

DOJ is now tracking your phone...hacking your bar code program and has a fleet of black helicopters following you and your "friend".

[kemasa]

Basically my friend buys gun, waits his 10 days and picks it up. He showed me his new purchase and I knew right off the bat it was off-roster. I scanned the barcode with my iPhone and sure enough it comes up as a off-roster handgun. So I guess it does happen.

So what? You don't have enough information to determine that anything was done incorrectly. It could be that a LEO bought the firearm and ended up putting it on consignment at the FFL. The FFL can transfer a consignment as a PPT, so it would be perfectly legal.

Did you see the DROS to see how exactly it was transferred and what it was claimed to be on the DROS form?

[kemasa]

And what exactly did it show?

[Colonel Monk]

We just had an inspection, our first with DOJ. Boss accidentally dicked up a DROS for an off-roster gun that was bought out of state by the customer. Thru his "not totally computer savvy" methods, ended up DROSing it "C&R" because there was no other way he could find to enter the gun information.

Didn't realize that used hanguns are subject to the roster without one of the exemptions.

In the eyes of DOJ this is no trivial matter, and we were told that the gun would be collected from the buyer. Not good....

Had we done this on purpose, it's grounds for losing a license.

We were also told by DOJ that they are following SSEs VERY CLOSELY. He did not really comment on the legality, but indicated that those FFLs that do them, had better not get caught UNDOING them.

I'd like more information, but it pretty much scared us off trying to do any SSEs.

CM

[kemasa]

The FFL can modify the firearm AFTER it has been transferred (out the door). There is no law preventing that, but then again there is really no law preventing law enforcement from harassing you :-).