Shipping high caps from TX to CA FFL - Minimum documentation required?

[Exile Machine]

What's the minimum documentation we need to see from a CA FFL to ship large capacity mags assembled into California?

The law has got about a half dozen bullet points on the subject but I'm hoping there's a simple document that'll cut through most of the red tape.

Thanks,
-Mark

[EBR Works]

Copy of their FFL and copy of their Large Cap permit.

[inbox485]

There's no law against exporting magazines from CA. The FFL/LCP as mentioned above would clarify how they got them legally to begin with though.

[Exile Machine]

Copy of their FFL and copy of their Large Cap permit.

Thanks... What if there's no large cap permit?

[inbox485]

Thanks... What if there's no large cap permit?

I might wonder how they legally acquired them, but there is no law I know of that you would violate on the receiving end, and no duty I know of to inquire. There are legal means to getting magazines and there is no law against possession.

[Exile Machine]

I might wonder how they legally acquired them, but there is no law I know of that you would violate on the receiving end, and no duty I know of to inquire. There are legal means to getting magazines and there is no law against possession.

Not sure we're on the same wavelength here so I'll try to clarify. I'm located in Texas, asking about shipping assembled large caps into CA to a CA FFL. I want to know what paperwork I need to see from the CA FFL that would allow me to legally ship the mags into CA assembled.

Thanks,
-Mark

[EBR Works]

You're going to need a copy of their large cap permit. Otherwise, they cannot import them into California.

[ASD1]

^^^^^ this
no high cap permit no shippy

[inbox485]

Not sure we're on the same wavelength here so I'll try to clarify. I'm located in Texas, asking about shipping assembled large caps into CA to a CA FFL. I want to know what paperwork I need to see from the CA FFL that would allow me to legally ship the mags into CA assembled.

Thanks,
-Mark

Gotcha. Thought it was the other way around. Yeah. What everybody else said:

no high cap permit no shippy

[Exile Machine]

Cool, thanks guys. That's simple enough.
-Mark

[mej16489]

not an FFL

Regardless of whether or not the California FFL has an Large Cap Permit, there isn't any burden on the TX FFL to see the permit is there?

In other words, Doesn't the importer (CA FFL) have the legal burden to follow the law?

[dachan]

not an FFL

Regardless of whether or not the California FFL has an Large Cap Permit, there isn't any burden on the TX FFL to see the permit is there?

In other words, Doesn't the importer (CA FFL) have the legal burden to follow the law?

You are absolutely correct in all your statements and by identifying the importer as the CA FFL. Only the importer has the legal burden to follow the law regarding importation of large capacity magazines, in this case by possessing a Large Capacity Magazine Permit. The out of state seller is not legally obligated to see the Permit nor is the Permit holder required to present the Permit prior to importing, though most Permit holders will voluntarily present it to ease the transaction with an out of state seller.

[franklinarmory]

Wrong guys. There are specific exemptions under ca law where you do not need the lcp. Only ffls with a dros account must have an lcp. A liquor store that has a side business of selling magazines to cops would be perfectly fine operating without an lcp.

[dachan]

Wrong guys. There are specific exemptions under ca law where you do not need the lcp. Only ffls with a dros account must have an lcp. A liquor store that has a side business of selling magazines to cops would be perfectly fine operating without an lcp.

Not really sure what you're getting at; first, the OP was questioning the need to be presented a Large Capacity Magazine Permit before shipping, not anything about exemptions to requiring a Permit. Second, only entities on the Centralized List can be issued a Permit, though having a Permit is not a requirement to be on the List (so your statement about FFL's with a DROS account must have a Permit is wrong).

Per PC12079 and PC12020, the Permit is issued by the DOJ to allow legal importation of large capacity magazines, not to sell large capacity magazines.

12079. (a) Upon a showing that good cause
exists, the Department of Justice may issue permits for
the possession, transportation, or sale between a person
licensed pursuant to Section 12071 and an out-of-state
client, of large capacity magazines.

12020. (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the
following: (26) The importation into this state of, or sale
of, any large-capacity magazine by a person who has
been issued a permit to engage in those activities
pursuant to Section 12079, when those activities are in
accordance with the terms and conditions of that
permit.

The exact verbage on the Permit:

This is to certify the above-named licensee(s) is/are permited by the Department of Justice pursuant to Penal Code section 12079 to engage in the lawful importation and exportation of large capacity magazines and the activities associated thereto as specified in Penal Code section 12020. This permit is valid throughout its term provided the permitees(s) Centralized List dealership status remains active.

Note again that the Permit is only valid as long as the dealer remains on the Centralized List.

The Permit is not a permit to sell large capacity magazines (to exempt persons). No such permit exists or is required to sell to exempt persons, they are exempt from PC12020 per PC12020. For example, Joe Blow can legally sell his large capacity magazines he owned prior to 01/01/2000 to his cop neighbor and every other cop that drives by, but he'll soon run out without a Large Capacity Magazine Permit which allows him to legally import more.

[franklinarmory]

Not really sure what you're getting at; first, the OP was questioning the need to be presented a Large Capacity Magazine Permit before shipping, not anything about exemptions to requiring a Permit. Second, only entities on the Centralized List can be issued a Permit, though having a Permit is not a requirement to be on the List (so your statement about FFL's with a DROS account must have a Permit is wrong).

Per PC12079 and PC12020, the Permit is issued by the DOJ to allow legal importation of large capacity magazines, not to sell large capacity magazines.

The exact verbage on the Permit:

Note again that the Permit is only valid as long as the dealer remains on the Centralized List.

The Permit is not a permit to sell large capacity magazines (to exempt persons). No such permit exists or is required to sell to exempt persons, they are exempt from PC12020 per PC12020. For example, Joe Blow can legally sell his large capacity magazines he owned prior to 01/01/2000 to his cop neighbor and every other cop that drives by, but he'll soon run out without a Large Capacity Magazine Permit which allows him to legally import more.

There are several comments in this thread that mistakenly assume that you must have an LCP in order to receive mags from out of state. What I meant in my comments was that, IF you are a gun dealer with a DROS account, you must have an LCP in order to receive magazines from out of state. If you are not a dealer, yet you fall under the exemptions stated under the old 12020, you do not need an LCP. There are many more exemptions besides 12020(b).