FFL Question regarding private sale

[rickster1269]

I bought a AR from Ventura county CA, I reside in Stanislaus county CA. My FFL does not allow a shipment from a private party only from another FFL. This makes things difficult for both parties especially me because he charges me sales tax AND $100 fee to accept the firearm from another FFL. Is this policy in place just to make money off me? I have never had to pay tax unless the firearm was shipped from out of CA. This makes it VERY difficult to get a deal on any gun I find that is not a FTF transaction. I pay $200 over the sales price on any gun I have shipped in after all is said and done, DROS, taxes, $100 fee, shipping to seller..

Signed,
Very frustrated

[NeoGeo630]

The tax rule started this year. As long as a firearm is transferred FFL to FFL regardless if it's new or used, tax is collected on it. If it's from private party to FFL, no tax is collected.

Is this in place to make money off you? Yes! It's a way for the state to get more money.

The rule sucks.

[tonyxcom]

If your FFL charges $100 to accept a transfer on a long gun you need to find a new FFL. That is extremely high.

[rickster1269]

The tax rule started this year. As long as a firearm is transferred FFL to FFL regardless if it's new or used, tax is collected on it. If it's from private party to FFL, no tax is collected.

Is this in place to make money off you? Yes! It's a way for the state to get more money.

The rule sucks.

"Is this in place to make money off you?"

The seller of a recent long gun sent me this;

"I've been in contact with Craig and he won't accept the rifle if I ship it directly to them because it's their policy. I have to go through a local FFL and have them ship it to them. I just wanted to give you an update. I will try and ship it to my FFL today or tomorrow. I'm sorry for the delay but the last rifle I took the receiving FFL just needed my drivers license and some basic info."

So if I understand this correctly, he wants(my FFL) the rifle shipped via an FFL to justify their $100??

[rickster1269]

If your FFL charges $100 to accept a transfer on a long gun you need to find a new FFL. That is extremely high.

I thought this was the going rate. So what is?

[NeoGeo630]

Usual average FFL transfer fees range from $50-$75. Some places charge upwards of $135 per transfer. I've seen fees as low as $35.

[NeoGeo630]

"Is this in place to make money off you?"

The seller of a recent long gun sent me this;

"I've been in contact with Craig and he won't accept the rifle if I ship it directly to them because it's their policy. I have to go through a local FFL and have them ship it to them. I just wanted to give you an update. I will try and ship it to my FFL today or tomorrow. I'm sorry for the delay but the last rifle I took the receiving FFL just needed my drivers license and some basic info."

So if I understand this correctly, he wants(my FFL) the rifle shipped via an FFL to justify their $100??

Every FFL has different policies regarding accepting transfers from private parties. Some won't take the risk, others are willing. It really has nothing to do with justifying the fees they charge. Even if your FFL did accept Shipments from private parties, they'd probably still charge you $100 in fees. Doing a FFL to FFL transfer costs both buyer and seller money.

[rickster1269]

Thank you Neo. Im now just taking it as keeping them in business, after all they are the best in town in my opinion. Ill just learn to keep it local and accept their terms if the need arises. Thanks for the info. So now my rant is over.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Even if your FFL accepted shipments from individuals, he would still be required to collect sales tax. The BOE has said any shipment requires sales tax now. Really PPT is nearly the only way to avoid that. And PPT is when the seller is in the shop with you with their CA ID/DL.

Thank you Neo. Im now just taking it as keeping them in business, after all they are the best in town in my opinion. Ill just learn to keep it local and accept their terms if the need arises. Thanks for the info. So now my rant is over.

They would still be justified in charging you the $100 transfer free whether it comes from a private party or comes from an FFL. Unless the seller is in the store with their ID/DL, it is not a PPT and not subject to the $35 transfer fee. Their own personal policy of having it shipped from an FFL is an extraneous burden upon you the customer with absolutely no benefit to anyone. I would find another FFL. I will never force a customer to go through the added expense of shipping a gun from an FFL when it is perfectly legal for your seller to ship the firearm directly to me.

[kemasa]

Even if your FFL accepted shipments from individuals, he would still be required to collect sales tax. The BOE has said any shipment requires sales tax now.

That is not correct. I posted the response from the BOE a short time ago regarding C&R handguns from an out of state seller with the buyer having a C&R FFL & CA COE, which is not subject to sales tax. The same would be true if the firearm is shipped from within CA. The method of the BOE to claim that sales tax is due from an out of state seller is that Federal law requires it to go through a FFL, so in-state shipments would not apply, so sales tax would not apply.

[damjo]

Contact me by PM. I am a FFL in Ceres and can do the transfer for you.

[tenpercentfirearms]

That is not correct. I posted the response from the BOE a short time ago regarding C&R handguns from an out of state seller with the buyer having a C&R FFL & CA COE, which is not subject to sales tax. The same would be true if the firearm is shipped from within CA. The method of the BOE to claim that sales tax is due from an out of state seller is that Federal law requires it to go through a FFL, so in-state shipments would not apply, so sales tax would not apply.

Can you post a link so I can go read it again please. I know about the C&R, but no one cares about C&R.

[kemasa]

It is referenced in the Master FAQ, then the thread about sales tax.

The specific post is:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=8823474&postcount=141

[tenpercentfirearms]

As explained in previous correspondence and noted in your current inquiry, in situations where a
California FFL dealer completes the registration paperwork for a California private party that is
selling a firearm to another California private party and the seller and purchaser agree to the
sale of the firearm without any assistance from a California FFL dealer (i.e., the California FFL
dealer simply registers the firearm without taking title to it at any time) the California FFL dealer
would not be considered the retailer and would not be responsible for the tax. The private party
seller would be liable for the tax unless the transaction is otherwise exempt. Thus, the sale of a
firearm between California private parties may be exempt from tax if the sale meets the
provisions of an exempt occasional sale as provided in Regulation 1595.

That is what I was looking for. Thanks kemasa. They don't seem to state whether shipping is the same, but that is better for us. So transfers from in-state are still exempt. Thanks.

That whole thing makes zero sense.

[kemasa]

In their other decision (change of view), it is stated that sales tax is collected because Federal law requires it be shipped to a FFL. So, as long as Federal law does not require the firearm to go through a FFL, it would be exempt from sales tax if it is being sold from a private party, an occasional sale and not from a business (as it used to be even when it was from out of state). This means that in-state shipping is not an issue, if it comes from a private party. It could be an issue if the private party has a FFL ship it.