NFA California "Transferable"

[dkirk]

As a type 07 dealer in California I am interested in gaining an NFA/SOT license as well. I know and understand Federal law concerning ownership of NFA items, but am not clear on California. Federal law seems to pick and choose when they want to trump state law or let them exercise their Constitutional authority, so here is my question:

If I were to get a NFA license and then later close that part of my business I would be able to keep any new or older SBR, AOW or pre May 19th, 1986 machine guns. Correct?

As for California, is it the same as Federal law? Would I be able to keep any year SBR, AOW or pre 1986 machine guns?

[ke6guj]

CA requires you to get a Dangerous Weapons Permit to possess most NFA items. If CADOJ issued you the DW permit, you could posses those NFA items listed on the permit. IF/When you dropped your FFL/SOT, CADOJ would probably pull the DW permit and you wouldn't be able to possess those NFA items anymore.

Now, there are some exemption to the above. AOWs (except for pen guns) and C&R SBS/SBR do not need any DW permit to possess, so you could keep them.

Suppressors don't need a DW permit either, but you can only possess them if you have an FFL + SOT.

DD's <.61" don't need a DW permit either.

[Quiet]

In order to get a CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit/License (DD/MG/SBR/SBS) you need a "good cause".
Currently, there are only two viable "good causes".
1. For use as a prop in the movie/tv industry. (you will need the backings/endorsements of a major studio)
2. For making/selling/loaning to a Gov/Mil/LE agency.

If your "good cause" does not fit any of those two categories you will be denied.
If you no longer retain your "good cause", then the permit/license will be revoked.

Also, under Federal laws/regulations...
If you are a FFL/SOT and give up your SOT status, you must transfer away all the NFA firearms in your inventory.

So, yes, CA is the same as the rest of the USA, when you give up your SOT, you must get rid of the NFA firearms in your inventory.

[ke6guj]

Also, under Federal laws/regulations...
If you are a FFL/SOT and give up your SOT status, you must transfer away all the NFA firearms in your inventory.

So, yes, CA is the same as the rest of the USA, when you give up your SOT, you must get rid of the NFA firearms in your inventory.

not necessarily. federally, the only thing that he has to transfer out are post-86 dealer samples. Any transferable or pre-86 samples can be kept. That is one reason why many pre-86 samples cost almost as much as their transferable cousins.

Now, that does not mean that you can get an SOT for one year, buy a ton of NFA stuff tax-free and then give up your SOT the next year. ATF considers that to be tax evasion.

[Quiet]

not necessarily. federally, the only thing that he has to transfer out are post-86 dealer samples. Any transferable or pre-86 samples can be kept. That is one reason why many pre-86 samples cost almost as much as their transferable cousins.

Now, that does not mean that you can get an SOT for one year, buy a ton of NFA stuff tax-free and then give up your SOT the next year. ATF considers that to be tax evasion.

I was told you had to transfer them out, but you can transfer them to yourself.
Company to individual.

I guess it depends on how the FFL is set up.

[dkirk]

What about establishing a need of making a living? For example, if I just got the Assault/50 BMG permit I could receive assault rifles and make them legal to sell in California, correct?

[ke6guj]

What about establishing a need of making a living?

they are not shall-issue permits. They have discression, and just because you want to make a living selling those evil things doesn't mean that they have to issue you a permit.

For example, if I just got the Assault/50 BMG permit I could receive assault rifles and make them legal to sell in California, correct?

yes, if they issued you an AW/.50BMG rifle permit, you could import AWs and modify them into non-AWs, and then sell them. YOu will have to pay for each AW that goes through your books (cost of the permit is based on the number of AWs that you transfer per year). And I've heard that CADOJ doesn't like you importing AWs, converting to non-AW, and then selling to the public. They can pull your AW permit if they want, remember, it is not shall-issue.

[Quiet]

And I've heard that CADOJ doesn't like you importing AWs, converting to non-AW, and then selling to the public. They can pull your AW permit if they want, remember, it is not shall-issue.

Per CA laws, for the Dangerous Weapons Permits, if CA DOJ determines you are using the dangerous weapon in a non-intended purpose (not being used as prop in movie/tv or not being used by Gov/Mil/LE agency), then they can revoke your permit, confiscate your entire inventory and subject you to a fine.
Not sure if this also applies to the assault weapons permit.

[dkirk]

I suppose it could be a dual purpose permit--as long as I satisfy the core requirements. I am interested in mostly "drop in" parts that don't require paying the tax; for example drop in a bullet button or place a pin in the folding stock and so on...

[ke6guj]

I suppose it could be a dual purpose permit--as long as I satisfy the core requirements. I am interested in mostly "drop in" parts that don't require paying the tax; for example drop in a bullet button or place a pin in the folding stock and so on...

not sure what tax you are referring to, NFA taxes? CADOJ inspection fee?

If you are talking about the yearly CADOJ inspection fee, that is based on the number of AWs that are recorded into you inventory over the year. Even "drop-in" conversions are going to count against your total number of AWs for the year, against which your fee is calculated.

For 26+ AWs throughout the year, you are looking at $1500 in inspection fees.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/BOF_031_Dangerous_Weapons_License_Permit_Renewal_App_ALC.pdf?

[GoingQuiet]

As a type 07 dealer in California I am interested in gaining an NFA/SOT license as well. I know and understand Federal law concerning ownership of NFA items, but am not clear on California. Federal law seems to pick and choose when they want to trump state law or let them exercise their Constitutional authority, so here is my question:

If I were to get a NFA license and then later close that part of my business I would be able to keep any new or older SBR, AOW or pre May 19th, 1986 machine guns. Correct?

As for California, is it the same as Federal law? Would I be able to keep any year SBR, AOW or pre 1986 machine guns?

Your post is flawed.

07 dealer? Dealers are 01, not 07. 07's are manufacturers. An SOT is NOT, I repeat NOT a license, it is a tax. If you were to become an SOT - you could in theory from a federal level (I cannot speak for state level legislation) keep a pre sample MG. However if ATF looks at it and they deem that you became an SOT to evade the transfer tax, you can be in some hot water.

[dkirk]

Thank you everybody for you responses. Federal permission is one thing; State is another. It looks like the State makes it difficult and expensive to become a class III dealer/manufacturer. After studying it a bit I realize this is on purpose. I don't have the volume or funds to make it worth all the hassle. Crush the little guy trying to make a living and corrupt the 2nd Amendment. Can anyone lead me to rock solid info concerning a trust? Price, time, process and amount of firearms per trust.

Thanks