Does "owner" have to be the seller?

[Cali-Glock]

I have a widow in my church who needs help selling her (now dead) husband's guns.

She has asked me and another gentleman in our church to assist her by selling these guns for her.

We suggested she sell them as a group to a dealer, but she wants/needs more than she is likely to get for the group.

She won't/can't go to gunshops to facilitate the face to face sales, and expects us (me and the other person helping her) to do this.

My question is can we do this?

My second question is if this is not acceptable what suggestions can you offer.

Thanks!

Can I act as the seller

[ojisan]

A couple thoughts and a suggestion:

1. If he was an "old timer" then likely many / most / all of the guns were bought before registration of any kind was required...especially if he ever lived out of state and then moved to CA. In this case, none of the guns may be registered in anybody's name. This is perfectly legal, there is no CA requirement to register guns purchased before 1990.

2. When you go to sell a gun, even if it may be unregistered, you can legally be the seller as long as you do the PPT at a dealer. So, you could act as the seller for the widow.

3. However, Fed law says no more than 5 handgun sale transactions per year, and unlimited number of long gun sales, as long as the sale of long guns is of an infrequent nature. (Note a handgun "transaction" can be more than one handgun per each transaction). An estate sale is certainly of an infrequent nature. This quantity per transaction is something to consider if the gun collection is numerous, not such a big deal if you only have 1-10 to sell.

4. To keep things clear (in case you use up all your transactions for the widow then decide to sell one your own handguns), you might want to get a simple Power of Attorney from the widow to act as her agent for the gun sales only. List all the guns you will sell on the PoA, keep a record of where they went and I am sure you would have no problems in the future if any questions are asked.

[kemasa]

Are you asking if you can legally do it or if you can get away with it?

BTW, it is CA law which has the limits stated above.

You could assist her by posting the firearms to a gun auction site or using a place which specialize in consignments (one local place to me is Lock, Stock and Barrel in Simi Valley).

[CSACANNONEER]

Are you asking if you can legally do it or if you can get away with it?

BTW, it is CA law which has the limits stated above.

You could assist her by posting the firearms to a gun auction site or using a place which specialize in consignments (one local place to me is Lock, Stock and Barrel in Simi Valley).

That's a great idea. Why not use LS&B or another brokerage firm to get top dollar for them? I'm betting that they could net you more than you would gross by just selling them locally. Maybe LS&B can work with you/her without either of you having to go to their location?????

[Librarian]

A couple thoughts and a suggestion:

1. If he was an "old timer" then likely many / most / all of the guns were bought before registration of any kind was required...especially if he ever lived out of state and then moved to CA. In this case, none of the guns may be registered in anybody's name. This is perfectly legal, there is no CA requirement to register guns purchased before 1990.

2. When you go to sell a gun, even if it may be unregistered, you can legally be the seller as long as you do the PPT at a dealer. So, you could act as the seller for the widow.

3. However, Fed law says no more than 5 handgun sale transactions per year, and unlimited number of long gun sales, as long as the sale of long guns is of an infrequent nature. (Note a handgun "transaction" can be more than one handgun per each transaction). An estate sale is certainly of an infrequent nature. This quantity per transaction is something to consider if the gun collection is numerous, not such a big deal if you only have 1-10 to sell.

4. To keep things clear (in case you use up all your transactions for the widow then decide to sell one your own handguns), you might want to get a simple Power of Attorney from the widow to act as her agent for the gun sales only. List all the guns you will sell on the PoA, keep a record of where they went and I am sure you would have no problems in the future if any questions are asked.

My first reaction was similar to (4), above. For an anecdote, there was a thread here where the seller had a collection to similarly dispose of; he reported calling DOJ and being told it would be OK. DOJ, telephone response - we know that has some baggage associated, but that response is consistent with the apparent desire to keep people from engaging in the business without all the licenses and oversight.

[halifax]

My first reaction was similar to (4), above. For an anecdote, there was a thread here where the seller had a collection to similarly dispose of; he reported calling DOJ and being told it would be OK. DOJ, telephone response - we know that has some baggage associated, but that response is consistent with the apparent desire to keep people from engaging in the business without all the licenses and oversight.

That might have been me. An elderly widow woman had about 30 firearms that belonged to her late husband. Dana (since retired) at the DOJ told me to photocopy her ID and have her fill-in the seller's part of a DROS worksheet and make multiple copies. With each transfer keep a copy of her ID and DROS worksheet. I needed to hand enter her information on the electronic DROS for each transfer.

The number of firearms (handguns and long guns) being transferred would not be a concern since it was a "one time liquidation" (i.e., a different kind of infrequent).

ETA: Then again it may not have been me since I was the dealer not the seller.

[Cali-Glock]

Thank you for all the input - my preference would be to farm this out to a dealer/broker - but currently she is being a bit of an obstacle to that option - though I will still pursue it.

[kemasa]

Well, you are not a dealer and you don't want to be viewed as a dealer without a license, so you need to look out for your best interest and if she does not sell them, then that is her problem. She could sell them all to you, then you could deal with selling them, but you need to be careful about that as well.