SSE and FFL issues

[pdq_wizzard]

Tagged for later

[Table Rock Arms]

I was told that you need a variance to use the serial number already on it. That is something to check on, but as I said, it is not a big deal and a one time thing to get permission, then you can do it on multiple firearms.



That is what I was told. If you stamp it on the barrel, it is easy.

Based on a ruling in 2009 one of the requirements for getting marking variance so that you do not have to put your information on the firearm is you must submit the serial numbers of the firearms you are performing manufacturing processes on in order to get the variance.

[kemasa]

Hmmm, you might want to check on what is possible with the variance. I might have gotten the wrong impression or perhaps it is now possible.

[ke6guj]

but if you mark the extended barrel with your manufacturer markings, then it would be a violation of the law to swap the barrel for the OEM barrel (which doesn't have your markings on it). And if you were required to mark it with your 07FFL info, shouldn't it be DROSed under your 07 name, not that of the original manufacturer?

[kemasa]

Well, the customer is replacing the barrel and I don't think that there is any law against that. The slide can be marked and often is, but the customer could replace the slide as well. The only thing that can't be modified is the serial number.

I am not sure about the name to be used for the DROS in this case. That is an interesting one as well.

[ke6guj]

Well, the customer is replacing the barrel and I don't think that there is any law against that. The slide can be marked and often is, but the customer could replace the slide as well. The only thing that can't be modified is the serial number.

that would be federal law as it applies to Title I firearms. CA's law is more strict. If the slide or barrel has a required manufacturer's mark on it (such as that of an 07FFL doing SSE conversions and wanting to mark the barrel so he only has to do it on the barrel once instead of on each handgun he modifies,, replacing it with an unmarked slide barrel afterwards, even by the customer, would appear to violate these PC sections.


23900. Any person who changes, alters, removes, or obliterates the
name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of
identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned
by the Department of Justice, on any pistol, revolver, or any other
firearm, without first having secured written permission from the
department to make that change, alteration, or removal shall be
punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.



23920. Except as provided in Section 23925, any person who, with
knowledge of any change, alteration, removal, or obliteration
described in this section, buys, receives, disposes of, sells, offers
for sale, or has in possession any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm that has had the name of the maker or model, or the
manufacturer's number or other mark of identification, including any
distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice,
changed, altered, removed, or obliterated, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.

I am not sure about the name to be used for the DROS in this case. That is an interesting one as well.

yup, this is all stuff that I have mentioned in the past, but "the right people" have said that this is not an issue.

[Table Rock Arms]

but if you mark the extended barrel with your manufacturer markings, then it would be a violation of the law to swap the barrel for the OEM barrel (which doesn't have your markings on it). And if you were required to mark it with your 07FFL info, shouldn't it be DROSed under your 07 name, not that of the original manufacturer?

That is exactly how it would work in that scenario.

[Table Rock Arms]

I personally think the real question is what is "substantially the same dimensions" in regards to drop in parts. Some people say that a longer barrel is not "substantially the same", however I would say that it is. if you were to take an exploded diagram of say a Glock barrel you would have easily 50 or 60 or more dimensions. If that same barrel is 9 inches long, how many dimensions are different? Just one. So if 50 or more dimensions are the same and one is different you could say that is "substantially the same".

As for the magazine, Some would say there is no difference between a 15rd, 10rd or a zero round magazine. The gun still functions the same. The gun is still a Semi Auto, it just doesn't load another round as it has a zero round magazine.

[Saym14]

intersting....so if one dropped in a conversion barrel say from .40 cal to 9mm, is that substaintially the same dimenions ? no one seems concerned about this type of drop in manuafactruring/ modification ?

[dachan]

OP, if you don't want to participate with SSE conversions, that's fine; but there's no need to be a

[EBR Works]

The other unfortunate variable in this scenario is the requirement that the 07 doing the manufacturing must pay 10% Federal Excise tax on the retail value of each firearm being sold or transferred. SSE transactions are about to get more expensive and complicated if the ATF makes the ruling that this is manufacturing.

[Saym14]

The other unfortunate variable in this scenario is the requirement that the 07 doing the manufacturing must pay 10% Federal Excise tax on the retail value of each firearm being sold or transferred. SSE transactions are about to get more expensive and complicated if the ATF makes the ruling that this is manufacturing.

hmmmm tax you when you earn it, tax you when you buy, tax you if you make a profit and tax you when you die, and now tax you when you modify (manufacture) it. sad - sad -sad.....

[Table Rock Arms]

hmmmm tax you when you earn it, tax you when you buy, tax you if you make a profit and tax you when you die, and now tax you when you modify (manufacture) it. sad - sad -sad.....

Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of how things work.

[Saym14]

Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of how things work.

unfortunatley.

[INDABZ]

The other unfortunate variable in this scenario is the requirement that the 07 doing the manufacturing must pay 10% Federal Excise tax on the retail value of each firearm being sold or transferred. SSE transactions are about to get more expensive and complicated if the ATF makes the ruling that this is manufacturing.

Well technically it could be thought of in anyway....gunsmithing or manufacturing?

But as long as the value of the weapon doesn't increase beyond MSRP....there shouldn't be any extra FED tax on the weapon....and if it doesn't than you aren't manufacturing anything....simply modifiying an existing item....gunsmithing.