home based 01FFL???

[D4ZORT]

It's a great question. I don't know how any of the home base FFL do it from the house and have "walk-in" traffic in a residential area? 99.9% of the cities don't allow this. Someone care to share how they do the transfers with people coming over?

[halifax]

It's a great question. I don't know how any of the home base FFL do it from the house and have "walk-in" traffic in a residential area? 99.9% of the cities don't allow this. Someone care to share how they do the transfers with people coming over?

For the most part, it's not a steady stream of unexpected customers like a B&M store. One or two people a day, maybe, for me and I know when they are coming because we have been in communication. From the outside, it looks less suspicious than the crackhouse down the street.

[Rigmarole]

It's a great question. I don't know how any of the home base FFL do it from the house and have "walk-in" traffic in a residential area? 99.9% of the cities don't allow this. Someone care to share how they do the transfers with people coming over?

This works just like the grandma down the street giving piano lessons out of her home. She sees one client at a time and they come in by appointment only. It is the same thing with transfers.

Most cities also have rules restricting business signage, on street parking, delivery trucks larger than a standard delivery van, etc. for home-based businesses.

[bebe67]

THIS IS THE LETTER I SHOT OFF TO THE CITY TODAY AND I REMOVED NAMES TO PROTECT MYSELF,

Dear Mr. Patlan,

I am writing in response to a phone conversation with one of The City City Hall employee on 02/1/2011 regarding my city permit that I filed for a home office business for the sale of firearms. This is my business model for more clarity. Please review California Penal Code 12070 and 12071 http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12070.php and how these Articles apply to my virtual (internet) business. These two sections fit my business model perfectly and verifies my intentions to run a virtual internet business utilizing a Federal Firearms License. As both codes state an individual or group may not conduct business without a Federal Firearms License. I have applied for my Certificate of Eligibility with the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms. I currently hold a Federal Firearms License 03 which is a collector of Curio and Relics Federal Firearms License and not able to deal with this Federal Firearms license and this is why I am applying for a dealer’s license to establish a business and provide for my family. A City Business License is the most important part of this process because without the city permit, The State of California will not allow a person to deal in firearms. Once I receive the business license I can proceed with applying for the dealer’s license and once approved I will be in full compliance and accuracy of Articles 12070 and 12071 and any other additional requirements set forth by the Federal Government and State of California as required by all FFL holders and California Certificate of Eligibility holders.

A first step in conducting our internet business is establishing my business name Armory with The City and my intent to operate an internet business. This is critical because part of the application process for a Federal Firearms License according to the ATF “TO RECEIVE A LICENSE AS A DEALER, IMPORTER, OR MANUFACTURER OF FIREARMS, YOU MUST INTEND TO ENGAGE IN A FIREARMS BUSINESS.” I fully intend to engage in the Internet business and participate in local Gun Shows utilizing my Federal Firearms License, Certificate of Eligibility from the State of California and Business License for Gun Shows all within compliance of Articles 12070 and 12071.

12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
12071. (a)(1) As used in this chapter, the term “license,” “person licensed pursuant to section 12071,” or regulatory or business license, or licenses required by local government. (C) A valid seller’s permit issued by the State Board of Equalization. (D) A Certificate of Eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (4). (E) A license issued in the format prescribed by paragraph (6). (F) Is among those recorded in the centralized list specified in subdivision (e). (2) The duly constituted licensing authority of a city, county , or a city and county shall accept applications for, and may grant licenses permitting, licensees to sell firearms at retail within the city, county or city and county. The duly constituted licensing authority shall inform applicants who are denied licenses of the reason for the denial in writing. (3) No license shall be granted to any applicant who fails to provide a copy of his or her valid firearms license, valid sellers permit issued by the State Board of Equalization, and the certificate of eligibility described above.
Mr. Patlan your hesitancy in issuing my permit seems to be focused on the fact that I am the first to have applied for this type of license in The City . The requirement for the city permit to state retail sales of firearms from my home address is required to receive my Federal Firearms License but the United States Code also provides definitions, and exceptions, that will allow me to obtain my FFL, without ever conducting retail sales, physically at my residence located at Just like I stated on my city permit application (Online Sales).

The Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms issuance of my FFL license is wholly separate and apart from my Home Business Permit. I also wanted to note, that I will comply 100% with the requirements of The City , to obtain my business license permit.
As an FFL license holder is permitted to conduct business away from his or her licensed location at gun shows within the state where FFL license is held.
As I mentioned I will be conducting business online and at gun shows and The United States Code provides, and the ATF views the gun show as an extension of my business location. Please see exert below from the federal regulations issued by the ATF governing the FFL license holder. Federal Regulations, ATF part 478-Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition.
Section 478.100 Conduct of business away from licensed premises. (a) (1) A licensee may conduct business temporarily at gun show or event as defined in paragraph (b) if the gun show or event is located in the same State specified on the license: Provided that such business shall not be conducted from any motorized or towed vehicle. The premises of the gun show or event which the licensee conducts business shall be considered part of the licensed premises. (emphasis added) Accordingly, no separate fee or license is required for the gun show or event locations.
However, licensees shall comply with comply with the provisions of section 478.91 relating to posting of licenses (or copy thereof) while conducting business at the gun show or event.
Additionally, if you review the ATF’s legal definition of a “dealer” below, or FFL Licensee, you will find no mention of, or requirement of retail sales or required retail space or commercially zoned business to obtain or maintain an FFL License. Please see exert below from the federal regulations issued by the ATF governing the FFL license holder, Gun Control Act 18 U.S.C.

Chapter 44
Dealer. Any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail; any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or any person who is a pawnbroker.
The term shall include any person who engages in such business or occupation on a part time basis.
The term “dealer” is defined at 18 U.S.C. section 921.(a)(11)(A) to include any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail. The term “engaged” in the business” as applied to a dealer in firearms means a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. A dealer can be “engaged in the business” without taking title to the firearm that are sold.
I hope this letter better clarifies your concerns and my business model is to sell firearms at gun shows, and online plus I would be able to supply our police department with weapons at a wholesale cost and savings to the citizens of . My legal counsel and I thoroughly reviewed the Federal ATF laws governing FFL dealers, and also thoroughly reviewed state laws and we are confident my business fully adheres to the requirements of The City of , federal and state laws. This is the same information I will provide to ATF during my on site interview, after which they will make their decision, as it relates to my application for a FFL.
These same issues have appeared from time to time, and have been resolved according to the sections of the United States Code that I have provided.
Thanks again for allowing me this opportunity to clarify my business model, and business operations, as well as, provide you the current law, as it relates to this matter. I would respectfully request that my Business License permit specifying “Retail sales of Firearms” be approved, so I can move on to the next application process, at your earliest convenience.

Very truly yours,

[IrishPirate]

^^wow, looks like you covered your bases pretty well. What city are you in?

[bebe67]

Your welcome to use it just put your info in.

[bebe67]

Just got a call from zoning and my permit for retail sales of firearms was approved for my home base business. AJUA!!!!!!

[halifax]

Just got a call from zoning and my permit for retail sales of firearms was approved for my home base business. AJUA!!!!!!

Biggest hurdle overcome. Best wishes and happy dealing.

[bebe67]

Agreed, you would figure the FFL would be the most difficult license to get but not in our state!! Now to decide if I want an FFL 01 or 07. Any info on the pro's and con's on the 07 would be appreciated and I know it cost less but are there additional fee's for being a manufacturer.

[metalstorm999]

Agreed, you would figure the FFL would be the most difficult license to get but not in our state!! Now to decide if I want an FFL 01 or 07. Any info on the pro's and con's on the 07 would be appreciated and I know it cost less but are there additional fee's for being a manufacturer.

Congrats on the first step, I just went through the same issues with my city, and they finally came to an agreement that ATF regulations regarding sales/transfers of firearms superceded their home occupational permit conditions, so I'm gtg now.Anyways I tried for an 07 and my IOI told me no because the city won't allow manufacturing from the residence so he rescended my application for the 07 and resubmitted a new 01 for me when we had our interview. So what I'm getting at is, might not want to ruffle any more feathers over at the city by applying for a 07 (cause ATF will discuss the matter with them before your interview) I'm sticking with an 01 for now until I get a B&M shop then I'll go for an 07. Anyways best of luck to you and the business!

[bebe67]

Thanks so true I guess I could always order the kits, sell it to them and they can give it back for gunsmithing.

[bebe67]

Got my DBA and Sellers permit today, inching closer and closer..

[kenko]

Nice to see your progress. This is something I have been thinking bout as well.

[bebe67]

Mailed out my FFL application today and now the 60 days wait begins. I think my COE is going to take the longest out of all this crazy process, Only in California!!!!

[PWPSK1]

Also finding a merchant (credit card) who allows you to sell guns is another issue. I called around and many said no go if you sell firearms.

Go through NRA Business Alliance---they have a credit card processor that knows you are a firearms retailer and will set you up with an account. They also have a very reasonably priced affiliation with an insurance company to make sure your firearms business is covered for commercial general liability, etc.

I would also caution any potential "home" FFL's as I am one: once you build a customer base (through good prices and excellent customer service) expect to spend much more time than you possibly imagined doing this. Between tons of paperwork, ordering guns/supplies, answering customer phone calls and emails and meeting with customers+keeping a day job, you will have little to no time left. Financially, unless you want to do this as a tax shelter, you will find the business doesn't truly pay for itself, let alone turn a profit, until you have customers coming in regularly. If you can do it, great, just be ready for this to be a bigger commitment than you might think.