More confusion about PPTs

[SPaikmos]

I'm trying to do a multiple handgun PPT, and it seems that I'm getting FUD from all directions! Doesn't help that most of the shops are closed on a Monday too...

Here are the things I'm hearing:

Gun Shop #1: "My PPT fee is $40 + 25 DROS. The state says I can only charge $10 for PPT, and then I can add my other fees for safe storage, etc. As long as I spell them out, I'm legally allowed to charge these extra fees."

Gun Shop #2: "If you do multiple handguns, I need to put them on a separate DROS because the DROS only has one field for serial number. So, my fee is $35 total for each handgun."

Gun Shop #3: "If you do multiple handguns, I need to report that to the ATF and you WILL get a visit. I highly recommend you to split the transfers apart by 5 days, otherwise the feds WILL be at your home."

Ok, my understanding:

1) PPT fee is $10 + $25 DROS, no exceptions.
2) Multiple handguns can be listed on the same DROS. So, should be $25 + $10 + $10.
3) Multiple handgun sales requires ATF notification, but will the ATF really visit you?

Now, it seems that my options are severely limited, since none of the gun shops convenient to me that are open today seem to have it straight....

[Yugo]

1) PPT fee is $10 + $25 DROS, no exceptions.
2) Multiple handguns can be listed on the same DROS. So, should be $25 + $10 + $10.
3) Multiple handgun sales not PPT requires ATF notification, but will the ATF really visit you?
.

^THIS

[allpoint]

I'm trying to do a multiple handgun PPT, and it seems that I'm getting FUD from all directions! Doesn't help that most of the shops are closed on a Monday too...

Here are the things I'm hearing:

Gun Shop #1: "My PPT fee is $40 + 25 DROS. The state says I can only charge $10 for PPT, and then I can add my other fees for safe storage, etc. As long as I spell them out, I'm legally allowed to charge these extra fees."

Gun Shop #2: "If you do multiple handguns, I need to put them on a separate DROS because the DROS only has one field for serial number. So, my fee is $35 total for each handgun."

Gun Shop #3: "If you do multiple handguns, I need to report that to the ATF and you WILL get a visit. I highly recommend you to split the transfers apart by 5 days, otherwise the feds WILL be at your home."

Ok, my understanding:

1) PPT fee is $10 + $25 DROS, no exceptions.
2) Multiple handguns can be listed on the same DROS. So, should be $25 + $10 + $10.
3) Multiple handgun sales requires ATF notification, but will the ATF really visit you?

Now, it seems that my options are severely limited, since none of the gun shops convenient to me that are open today seem to have it straight....

16.Is there a maximum number of handguns that a person may purchase?
While no limitation exist for the number of handguns that a person may own, a person is generally limited to making no more than one application to purchase a handgun within any 30 day period. Handgun transactions related to law enforcement, private party transfers, returns to owners, and other specified circumstances are exempt from the one-handgun-per-30-day restriction.

(PC section 12072(a)(9))

What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, you are restricted to charging no more than $25.00 in State fees described and $10.00 per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:

a.For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgun.
b.For PPTs involving one or more long guns, the State fees are limited to $25.00 for the whole transaction plus $10.00 dealer fee per firearm transferred.
(PC section 12082

This is from from the CA DOJ website.

[lorax3]

Ok, my understanding:

1) PPT fee is $10 + $25 DROS, no exceptions.
2) Multiple handguns can be listed on the same DROS. So, should be $25 + $10 + $10.
3) Multiple handgun sales requires ATF notification, but will the ATF really visit you?

Each handgun needs a separate DROS. DOJ FAQ #18 says :

18. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, you are restricted to charging no more than $25.00 in State fees described and $10.00 per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:

For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgun.
For PPTs involving one or more long guns, the State fees are limited to $25.00 for the whole transaction plus $10.00 dealer fee per firearm transferred.
(PC section 12082)

There is a from that a dealer must fill out ATF Form 3310.4(Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers).

This form is to be used by licensees to report all transactions in which an unlicensed person acquired two or more pistols or revolvers or any combination of pistols or revolvers totaling two or more at one time or during five consecutive business days. This form is not required when the pistols or revolvers are returned to the same person from whom they are received.

Where does this form go? [ATF FAQ]

ATF Form 3310.4 must be completed in triplicate (3 copies). The original is sent to ATF’s National Tracing Center by fax at 1-877-283-0288 or by mail to P.O. Box 0279, Kearneysville, West Virginia 25430-0279. A copy is to be sent to the designated State police or the local law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction where the sale took place. The remaining copy is to be retained in the records of the dealer and held for not less than 5 years.

[27 CFR 478.126a and 478.129]

[SPaikmos]

Each handgun needs a separate DROS. DOJ FAQ #18 says :

18. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, you are restricted to charging no more than $25.00 in State fees described and $10.00 per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:

For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgun.
For PPTs involving one or more long guns, the State fees are limited to $25.00 for the whole transaction plus $10.00 dealer fee per firearm transferred.
(PC section 12082)

Ok, now that confuses me even more, because the DOJ writes the two cases (handgun and long gun) in two separate ways.

If I understand correctly:

For the first handgun, the max that you can charge is $35 ($25 DROS + $10 dealer fee)
For the second handgun, the max that you can charge si $31 ($25 DROS + $6 dealer fee)

Is that correct?

Or is it:
$60 for the first one ($35 fee + $25 DROS)
$56 for the subsequent ones ($31 fee + $25 DROS)

I am guessing it's $35 + $31. I'm just a little confused because the long gun section specifically state $25 DROS + $10 per firearm, and the handgun one is worded differently.

[PolishMike]

It is $35 for the first one, $31 for each additional one, total.

It breaks down as:
DROS $19
FIREARM SAFETY FEE $01
SAFETY AND INFORCEMENT FEE $5
DEALER FEE $10

For each additional one it breaks down as:
REDUCED DROS $15
FIREARM SAFETY FEE $1
FIREARM SAFETY AND ENFORCEMENT FEE $5
DEALER FEE $10

[SPaikmos]

Gotcha. Thank you very much!

[kemasa]

There is no DROS discount for a PPT handgun and a PPT long gun.

For multiple long guns the charges would be $25 for the DROS and $10 for each firearm.

The FFL can charge additional storage fees, but only if the firearm is left over 10 days. There can not be any additional fees if you pick it up right after the waiting period. Personally, I think that it is pretty bad to charge additional fees.

[SPaikmos]

Well, this one didn't even give me the option to pick it up in exactly 10 days; just says there's extra "fees" involved and that's that.

Wow, spent over an hour doing the PPT! Grr... what a waste of time.
Even though I had a valid lock, they made me buy one (took 10 min because there was a long line) and then allowed me to return it right away, which took another 10 min because they had to track down the manager to punch some codes in the register.

[kemasa]

Have a nice chat with the CA DOJ and the FFL and you should get the extra fees back.

You need a lock with a receipt within 30 days for CA or a safe and a lock for the Feds.

[Librarian]

Even though I had a valid lock, they made me buy one (took 10 min because there was a long line) and then allowed me to return it right away, which took another 10 min because they had to track down the manager to punch some codes in the register.

I'm losing track with the number of posts ...

Have you picked up the gun(s) yet? Because you need the safety device(s) and the receipt when you pick up the gun(s).

[SPaikmos]

Started DROS this afternoon.
Even though the seller had a lock on it, they made me buy a lock from them, show them the receipt, then return the lock. Waste of time.

[kemasa]

If the firearm came with a CA certified lock, that is all you need.

[SPaikmos]

If the firearm came with a CA certified lock, that is all you need.

That's what I thought too. They told me that the firearm has to have the OEM lock that was provided with the arm (in this case, a SIG) and that if I did not have THAT SPECIFIC LOCK then I needed to have a receipt within 30 days. I literally have a shopping bag full of locks and the guy said no, it has to be the SIG lock for the SIG firearm.

I asked them if I could buy and return the lock there and they said that was fine. That's ok I guess, but it added about 20 min to the whole transaction time, which took over an hour from start to finish.

Ah well, all in all, the transaction went as smoothly as could be expected. I know it's not in their interests to do PPT, but while I was there I did see a CZ that I was interested in picking up too.... but I didn't feel like spending another hour trying to do the DROS and waiting in line to pay for it... (not to mention the earlier threat of ATF visitation with more than 1 handgun in 5 days...)

[Librarian]

Geez. PC 23635

(a) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a
licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a
dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state, shall include or
be accompanied by a firearm safety device that is listed on the
Department of Justice's roster of approved firearm safety devices and
that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to
either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical
characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster
for use with the device.

Returning it today looks like that was a mistake (to go along with the others you have related).