Newbie FFL Question about estate handgun transfer

[cubuffalo]

I have a customer whose father passed and bequeathed two handguns to him. An out of state FFL has the handguns and requires shipment to a California FFL because he won't ship handguns to a non-licensee. Once I receive the handguns as the California FFL and enter them into my bound book, what do I do to transfer them to the customer? Do I DROS? Any DROS exemptions (10-day waiting and/or 1 in 30)? If I don't DROS, do I copy his HSC info and give him the Report of Op Law / Intra-Familial Handgun Form? Thank you for your replies.

[kemasa]

In this case, I believe that the firearm can be directly shipped since it is bequeathed from his father. A check with the BATF should confirm that. That is an exemption to the restriction of interstate shipping.

If the firearms go through you, I don't know an exemption would would allow you to not submit the DROS, with the waiting period. You could confirm that with the CA DOJ.

[efillc]

In this case, I believe that the firearm can be directly shipped since it is bequeathed from his father. A check with the BATF should confirm that. That is an exemption to the restriction of interstate shipping.

Nope. Whoever is handing the estate messed up. The heir can travel to pick up the guns from the estate executor or administrator, but the guns can not be shipped to the heir by the FFL who has them now.

[kemasa]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

So, under Federal law it is allowed. State law would require that the form be filled out. without this exemption, the person would not be allowed to go pick it up.

It is important to note that it is REQUIRED for it to be a bequest, meaning that it has to be specifically mentioned in the will.

[WmWhitfield]

Kemasa. You may be interpreting "bequest" too narrowly. A "special bequest" directs specific personal property to go to a specific heir. If you research the matter, I believe you will find that any personal property distributed under a will or even a trust meets 922(a)(5)(A). A will normally does not list each item of propery.

[kemasa]

I am not saying that each item has to be listed, but what I was told was that the firearm has to be given to the person. Saying that all firearms are to go to a given person would be included, but saying that the person wanted them to have the firearm would not. If everything were to go to the person, then it would be included. If all items were to go to one person, but some items of those are given to others, then it would not apply. For example, if the father died and the will stated that his wife was to get everything, but she decided to give one of his firearms to his son, that would not be listed in the will and would not qualify.

[WmWhitfield]

I am not saying that each item has to be listed, but what I was told was that the firearm has to be given to the person. Saying that all firearms are to go to a given person would be included, but saying that the person wanted them to have the firearm would not. If everything were to go to the person, then it would be included. If all items were to go to one person, but some items of those are given to others, then it would not apply. For example, if the father died and the will stated that his wife was to get everything, but she decided to give one of his firearms to his son, that would not be listed in the will and would not qualify.

I don't know enough about wills and trusts, but what you have been told can be taken at least two ways. Take the situation where everything goes to the wife.

If the wife having taken all property by bequest decides to give decedent's firearm to their son, the reason the exemption does not apply is that it was given to him neither under the will nor the laws of intestacy. The gift is completely outside of the death transfer.

However, should everything be left to the wife by decedent husband's will, but the will gives her a power to decline any part of her bequest, and the son be the residual beneficary, the exemption would apply since he received the firearm by bequest.

Then there are powers of appointment and for the live of me I don't remember how they work.

[efillc]

You need to read 922(a)(3) and 922(a)(5) together - one concerns the transfer out of the estate, the other the receipt by the heir. (5) was stated above (thank you Kemasa), here is (3):

(3) for any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed
collector to transport into or receive in
the State where he resides (or if the
person is a corporation or other business
entity, the State where it maintains
a place of business) any firearm purchased
or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State, except that
this paragraph (A) shall not preclude
any person who lawfully acquires a
firearm by bequest or intestate succession
in a State other than his State of
residence from transporting the firearm
into or receiving it in that State, if it is
lawful for such person to purchase or
possess such firearm in that State, (B)
shall not apply to the transportation or
receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity
with subsection (b)(3) of this section,
and (C) shall not apply to the
transportation of any firearm acquired in
any State prior to the effective date of
this chapter;

All of this is moot as the estate's executor has already transferred the gun to an FFL. There is no way for an FFL to ship a gun legally to a non-licensee in another state unless it's being returned to the original owner after repairs or gunsmithing, but that's not the case here either.

[kemasa]

Perhaps I am not reading it correctly, but it appears that if the FFL is doing the transfer is doing the following: "the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm",
then it is still covered under the law. Unless I missed it, I don't see that it is limited to only the executor of the estate.

[efillc]

I think you may be confusing "transport" and "transfer" with "ship". FOPA '86 has a good example of the difference:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/926A

Or run the scenario another way: a non-licensee brings you several handguns that he says need to go to his brother in another state (for the sake of argument, I'll use a free state with no state handgun regulations, like WV). The guy says that he is the executor of their dad's estate and the brother inherited the guns from their dad. He wants you to ship them because you can ship via USPS, which is cheaper than UPS or FedEx overnight.

Do you ship to the brother, or to the brother's FFL?

[kemasa]

Talk is cheap, without paperwork it means nothing. With the paperwork I would check with the BATF to make sure I was doing the right thing, in the right way, since I don't have experience in this specific area. I would prefer to ship to a FFL and allow that FFL to transfer the firearms how they choose or have the person ship directly. In other words, there is not enough information to answer the question :-).

What I know is that the Federal Code allows for a direct shipment in the case of a bequest. The details of exactly how that is done is unknown.

[cubuffalo]

I spoke to the BOF and since the executor of the estate already sent the guns to an FFL to ship out, I as the receiving CA FFL will have to DROS the guns with a 10-day waiting period.