FACT OT FUD?

[sendithit]

DROS FACT OR DROS FUD?

BACKGROUND: It is legal for a Buyer to own/possess/operate any Cal-legal firearm in a legal manner. It is legal for the Buyer to own and use hi-cap mags for work/work-related training. The Buyer is an active LEO in good standing.

PRESENT DAY: There's a punched hole in the Buyer's Calif.DMV driver's license because at the time of renewal, a new plastic CDL was not issued at the DMV office and instead a 60-day extension on a DMV document (along with the expired hole-punched CDL) was issued in lieu of a new plastic CDL with instructions to present the document to any DMV office if the new CDL does not appear in 60 days. The Buyer recently and successfully applied for a US passport with the expired hole-punched CDL and DMV document of extension.

INCIDENT: The Buyer recently entered a well-known gunstore in SoCal to purchase a firearm and was denied because tthe store employee and store manager both told the Buyer that the hole-punched CDL and DMV 60-day extension was not an acceptable form of ID for DOJ and the DROS. Until the Buyer is in possession of the new CDL, the Buyer cannot DROS.

QUESTIONS: Is the gunstore's manager and employee telling FACT or FUD? If it is indeed FACT, where in CAL/DOJ or US/DOJ is it printed? If the US Dept of State and LEAs/LEOs accept it, then why not gunstores/Cal-DOJ/DOJ? Curious.

[dachan]

If the store says it's a DOJ issue, insist they start the DROS anyway and you'll pay any restocking fee if the DROS gets denied because you DL is not valid. The validity of your DL is one of the first things checked in the DROS process.

[sendithit]

If the store says it's a DOJ issue, insist they start the DROS anyway and you'll pay any restocking fee if the DROS gets denied because you DL is not valid. The validity of your DL is one of the first things checked in the DROS process.

Re: "Put your money where your mouth is." Is that for the store, or is that for the Buyer. The Buyer offered to put a substantial amount of money down to hold the firearm until the new CDL arrived, but the offer was refused. And the way Calif DMV is, who knows how long it will be before the new CDL arrives. The firearm would be subject to sale in the meantime because iits better to sell today than to sit on inventory, right? No new CDL with new expiration date = no way to dros? Even when the name and # on the new CDL is the exact name # as on the expired CDL? And the Buyer has other Govt ID to indicate legitimacy? Is this an FFL/gunstore problem or is it a DOJ problem or a Buyer problem?

[OCArmory]

The problem you face is that on the extension is says "not for Identification Purposes". The whole punched in the drivers license also makes the hard card not valid for identification as the usually punch it through the expiration date. I have a 50% success rate of them being approved by the DOJ in the 10 day wait. Of those the ones that are approved usually have gotten their hard card within the 10 days. The ones that were denied usually did not. The DROS system does not allow for us to use any other form of identification other than a State ID or DL or military ID. Federally we could use a combination of a passport and supporting address documentation but state wise I do not believe we can. These are just my experiences.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Penal Code. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#11

16. 16.Does California law permit the use of a temporary license as a form of identification for firearm purchases?

Neither temporary driver's licenses nor temporary identification cards are accepted forms of proof of identity and age.

(PC Section 12071 (c)(1)).

I would have most certainly let the guy pay for the firearm and then just waited until he got his new license. I won't let people pay for the DROS and let them submit anymore after it appears the DOJ has some way of knowing you don't have a plastic license yet. I have had customers with a valid license get rejected because they don't have the plastic copy.

[sendithit]

Thanks for the feedback/info, sirs, ma'ams, & small childs. This has been very enlightening on how DOJ views things and what they require of the ethical and legit FFL/gunstore. But why a legit govt document extension+expired CDL is not a valid form of ID for dros is beyond common sense.

ITS THE SAME PERSON, THE SAME ADDRESS, AND THE SAME CDL NUMBER!!!

THIS SAME BUYER/PERSON WENT INTO A STATE GOVT BUILDING AND FILLED OUT OFFICIAL STATE GOVT DOCS, PAID THE RENEWAL FEE WITH U.S. FUNDS, GOT AN OFFICIAL STATE GOVT RECEIPT, AND THE DATA WAS ENTERED INTO AN OFFICIAL STATE GOVT DATA-STORAGE SYSTEM BY A STATE GOVT OFFICIAL DOING OFFICIAL WORK FOR THE STATE GOVT!

All of this to show that the Buyer is who the Buyer is that the Buyer is also legally licensed to drive....and this form of combo ID is recognized by LEAs/LEOs. Wow.......wow indeed!

(Please excuse my yelling....its not directed at the reader )

[mscales5]

Only a VALID CA ID or DL can be used. Once the paper version is issued your "old" one is no longer VALID. Sorry, that is he way it is. But, if the old ID is still within its expiration date I would take it along with the new paper one as long as the buyer was willing to redo the DROS and pay another $25 if needed. To me, the old ID, if unexpired, is still valid as a form of ID.

[tenpercentfirearms]

But, if the old ID is still within its expiration date I would take it along with the new paper one as long as the buyer was willing to redo the DROS and pay another $25 if needed. To me, the old ID, if unexpired, is still valid as a form of ID.

What if they punch out the date of expiration? Would you still take it?

I wouldn't. No way to verify that is the year it was valid until. Plus, I am telling you, the DOJ figured out a way to know if you have your plastic copy yet or not. They will straight reject paper copies. They have to be getting the data from the DMV.

[rbetts]

I have had a few situations like this. Each and every hole punched DL taken has been rejected by the DOJ for DMV issues. I tell my customers this before they start the DROS process, but they insist on running the DROS on the"chance" that it will work. Never does and always costs them an extra 25 bucks. and maybe additional DOJ scrutiny.

The DOJ has a direct feed from the DMV. DMV rejects usually happen in a day or two, which means the report the clerk is using to reject is run daily and no additional research needs to be done. How do I know this??? I ask the clerk when they call me with the reject how they know so fast. Most other rejects happen towards the end of the 10 day wait.


ITS a Fact FOLKS. Hole in license = INVALID LICENSE AND Loss of your DROS $$ if you choose to proceed against our advice.

[GoingQuiet]

For the non-CA residents - what's the significance of a hole punch?

[garplay]

The DMV really REALLY doesn't like the idea of more than one license in existence per person, because a second license can be sold on the black market.

So whenever you do something that requires issuing a new card, eg, adding a new class, etc, they "punch" the old license with a hole punch which means its no longer legally valid.

Yes, its a pain in the @#)(*# in this "Papers Please" world we live in, especially when a few months ago they were taking 3 MONTHS to issue new cards.

[BannedinBritain]

The DMV really REALLY doesn't like the idea of more than one license in existence per person, because a second license can be sold on the black market.

Which is hilarious considering you can go to Mexico and buy one cheaper than the State charges.

So whenever you do something that requires issuing a new card, eg, adding a new class, etc, they "punch" the old license with a hole punch which means its no longer legally valid.

Which is why I always tell people "leave your DL at home and tell them you lost your card" when they go to DMV...it will save you a ton of headaches.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Just get a CA ID and keep it somewhere safe. It's the same number as your DL, but doesn't get taken away when you drive drunk or do something else stupid. You can have both. Heck, you can have two licenses. I have two identical CA licenses and an ID. They sent me an extra DL by mistake. I keep it in the car just in case I leave home without my wallet.