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Ok... tell me what the right thing to do is... I'm a brand new 07 holder and I want to know I've documented my personal firearms correctly. I know I need a separate bound book, but where do I get the format? Am I just missing it in an obvious place???
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Where are you storing these firearms? With the company firearms? Is your shop in your house?
I own a corporation and my personal guns are at home so I do not have a personal bound book.
I would not want to enter my personal guns into a "company" bound book because then it might look like they belong to the company.
So if all you need is a way to list them down which does not necessarily have to comply with any BATFE rules, then just send me an e-mail at ad@taftguns.com and it will auto send you my A&D Excel file. Just keep an electronic copy of your personal guns in that format.
If you like the way I do things, use it for your company books too, but remember you have to print the last page everytime you add a firearm to your inventory or manufacture a firearm.www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. -
GoingQuiet.com, 07/02 FFL
Melbourne, FL
321-917-0760
PRIVATE MESSAGES SENT TO THIS ACCOUNT ARE NOT CHECKED - instead, email sales@goingquiet.comComment
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It does not. Again, show me the code that requires you use that booklet.
Oh wait. EDIT! I see metalstorm is giving us an answer to the original question, not the question on whether there is a requirement to use the book. Sorry about that.
Yes this book would work. However, is it required?www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms.Comment
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Nope.
Sorry, I can't find it. Can you quote it for us please?www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms.Comment
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what are you not getting maybe that is the question...sigpicComment
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Sorry bout that, I should of quoted the OP before posting. But no I dont think that form is a requirement,just a handy resource to record your personal firearms.All I know is that my IOI told me to make sure my personal is seperated from my business inventory and it would make thing easier. Now, I do belive you can have personal mixed with business as long as it is tagged as a personal firearm and you have record showing they are your personal, which is why I use form atf 3312.8 and just slip it in the front cover of my bound book.Hope this helps, and you guys are a godsend for me.The info you guys have provided in this forum has helped me alot with getting my business off the ground. Thank you!Comment
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Ok, definitely agree on the form 3312.8. I also just found that that exact layout is also published in one of the ATF's handout booklets they give you when you startup, the"Safety and Security Information for FFL's" (ATF Pub. #3317.2).
Now, this only brings up another question for me. SS48.125 makes it clear that you can sell an item out of your personal collection provided:
1.) The firearm must be on personal book for at least 1 year
2.) Must have been entered on FFL Bound Book when manufactured or othewise acquired
3.) Entered as a disposition on FFL Bound Book when transferred to Personal Book
4.) Documented on Personal Book as disposition with records compliant of Table 6 on Page 68
Note: When the personal firearm is sold pursuant to the conditions above, which apparently constitutes one private individual selling to another, no ATF Form 4473 is required.
#'s 1 and 2 are clear as stated. Sounds like it paves the way for a firearm being transferred from the FFL the Personal Collection. But here's my question- Why is there no ATF prohibition against me as the director of the LLC not transferring whatever firearm I want to my personal collection "just because I want to"? I mean, how does that not "pierce the corporate veil"? Just doesn't seem to make sense when considering both FFL rules and LLC business rules...Comment
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The LLC is not "you", it is a separate legal entity. It holds the FFL, you don't (which is a good thing, especially as a manufacturer!).
To transfer a firearm from the FFL to yourself, you need to follow whatever the normal process is in CA when you transfer a gun to any individual, with you personally as the transferee.
ETA: When you do so, of course there are accounting/bookkeeping/potential tax implications when you take property from the biz and make it your own. Your accountant can help here.Last edited by efillc; 09-29-2011, 7:39 PM.Comment
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I have never heard that you need to keep a personal bound book. Depending in how the FFL is licensed, you just transfer the firearm and mark it for owner's personal collection. Also, I was told that if you purchase a firearm elsewhere, you need to mark it in your bound book when you get back (no DROS if that was done elsewhere, just logging it, it is Federal, not a State thing).
Also, if you do fill out a 4473, then the 1 year aspect does not apply.Kemasa.
False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse.
Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. HeinleinComment
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It was my understanding from ATF that sole prop firearms - for example, personal collection - need to be documented differently from commercial sale firearms. This is because sole prop FFL's do not do 4473's and can transfer firearms to themselves amongst other things.
If I'm wrong, someone want to look into it? I'm not a sole prop but I know folks who are and they maintain separate records. My company is an LLC and I still keep a different book for my personally owned firearms just to keep things straight because I do keep my personal firearms on business premises for reference and teaching purposes because ATF had advised me that all firearms on business premises should be accounted for in some way.
This is in relation to the sole prop vs LLC issue. My reading of that section of 478.12 (for some reason your post says SS478) and interpretation is the same as yours. HOWEVER that is a sole prop. As an LLC, the LLC is the licensee and FFL. You are merely the responsible person.
There is a prohibition because as a director of the LLC with the FFL, you are NOT the licensee - you are a subordinate of the licensee. Sole prop's can transfer firearms from business inventory to personal on a whim.Last edited by GoingQuiet; 10-01-2011, 9:41 PM.GoingQuiet.com, 07/02 FFL
Melbourne, FL
321-917-0760
PRIVATE MESSAGES SENT TO THIS ACCOUNT ARE NOT CHECKED - instead, email sales@goingquiet.comComment
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