Always a FFL

[kemasa]

I learned something new today, which is that a FFL who is a sole proprietor is always a FFL and can not purchase a firearm within their state of residence as a private party. As a FFL, no 4473 should be filled out and even if it is, the FFL is required to log the firearm in their bound book.

Please see page 7:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2006-03.pdf

That should teach for for asking questions, such as if a FFL transfers a handgun to their own personal collection, a DROS is submitted, but no 4473.

[GoingQuiet]

All great info and very true - however due to liability, there are very few sole proprietors left in the country. Nearly everyone now is incorporated, partnership or LLC.

[kemasa]

I believe it also applies to a partnership. Basically if you can transfer a firearm into your own personal collections without filling out a 4473, then it applies.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Okay ATF, I read what you are saying, but where did you come up with this from?

27 CFR 478.125(e) states, The ATF is trying to state that you are always a licensee. If that were true, then you couldn't have personally owned firearms as is allowed by the code and as is stated in their newsletter. You would have to inventory your entire collection into your A&D book. Yet they say when you start business, you can have a personal collection and a business inventory as long as they are kept separate. If they are not kept separate, then you are supposed to clearly label the ones "not for sale".

I think you ought to research this one some more. I think they are stretching it.

[kemasa]

Where do you get that you can not have personally owned firearms? This deals only with acquiring firearms and having to log it when you are a FFL, nothing more. You would log that it went to your own personal collection.

Read the newsletter Q&A, what more research do you want?

[tenpercentfirearms]

Where do you get that you can not have personally owned firearms? This deals only with acquiring firearms and having to log it when you are a FFL, nothing more. You would log that it went to your own personal collection.

Except that if you are a wanting to buy an off-roster PPT handgun somewhere else, you can't do. Techincally, could you even PPT a gun at your own store since you are not a person anymore and it has to go into dealer inventory first? We are not handgun roster exempt for personal firearms.

Which I suppose you could just put a company gun on your CCW. However, what happens if you sell the business.

Read the newsletter Q&A, what more research do you want?

I want code that backs up what they are saying. Surely you are not telling me to take the ATF's word that it is in there somewhere. Where does it say that you can't be a private party when using other dealers? Where does it say you can't PPT handguns in California through your own shop if it is for your personal collection? Where does it say you can't 4473 a gun if you are a dealer? Or does it just say you don't have to?

Just like the BOE and DOJ, I take their word for nothing. I want to read it for myself.

[kemasa]

Except that if you are a wanting to buy an off-roster PPT handgun somewhere else, you can't do. Techincally, could you even PPT a gun at your own store since you are not a person anymore and it has to go into dealer inventory first? We are not handgun roster exempt for personal firearms.

There is nothing limiting you from buying a firearm elsewhere, you just need to log it. I think that you are getting confused with Federal requirements and State requirements. The Feds say that you can buy elsewhere, but should not fill out a 4473, and then put the info in your bound book. The bound book would just show that you got a firearm from another place and that it went to your personal collection. It would be a good idea to keep a copy of the DROS from the other location.

A PPT is a state thing.

Which I suppose you could just put a company gun on your CCW. However, what happens if you sell the business.

I want code that backs up what they are saying. Surely you are not telling me to take the ATF's word that it is in there somewhere. Where does it say that you can't be a private party when using other dealers? Where does it say you can't PPT handguns in California through your own shop if it is for your personal collection? Where does it say you can't 4473 a gun if you are a dealer? Or does it just say you don't have to?

You quoted the Federal Code, so read that.

It says that as a licensee you need to do certain things and not fill out the 4473 since you are a licensee.

It doesn't say that you can't PPT handguns at all. That is a STATE thing and has NOTHING to do with the Feds. Where do you say that it does??? It says that you should not fill out a 4473 ever. It says that you should not fill out a 4473, but you can, but even if you do, you still need to log the firearm in your bound book. Realize that logging the firearm into your bound book does not mean that you have to do anything else, especially with regards to the state.

Just like the BOE and DOJ, I take their word for nothing. I want to read it for myself.

So read, but don't try to read more into it than there is. You have to ignore ALL of the State requirements with respect to this as that is completely separate. The Feds are NOT saying anything about what you have to do when it comes to State issues. You do have to follow the State requirements, but as I said, that is completely separate. If you transfer a handgun from your business to yourself, you need to DROS it, but no 4473. For a long gun, you just log it in your bound book, no DROS, no 4473.

According to what I was told and read, if you were to buy a handgun which is not on the certified list at a remote FFL, you would go there, fill out the DROS, but no 4473, if you provide the paperwork then you would be exempt from the waiting period, you then would bring the firearm back, log it into your bound book as being transferred to your personal collection and then you are done. You don't re-DROS it, it is already yours according to the State, but there are additional requirements of logging it into your bound book under Federal law.