shipping of a long rifle

[SERIAL SNIPER]

so i sold a long rifle that i have and the buyer provided me with a ffl in his area. where do i go to find out if this persons ffl is legit and di i need any peper work other than a photo copy of my D.L.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Here's the ATF web site where you can check the FFL# and address to see if it is valid...

https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

You should contact the FFL directly to ask what paperwork he will require from you. A copy of your DL is usually all they want.

[kemasa]

What he said.

[GoingQuiet]

so i sold a long rifle that i have and the buyer provided me with a ffl in his area. where do i go to find out if this persons ffl is legit and di i need any peper work other than a photo copy of my D.L.

1. If you have their license, which you shouldn't - you can hit ATF EZ check to see.
2. If you DO NOT have their license, which is the approved ATF protocol - you can hit the ATF website, look up the licensee information in the giant FFL database by state to see. Typically people don't lie about being a gun dealer.
3. There is no federal OR STATE requirement to provide a photo copy of your DL. I caution anyone everyone who talks about this because routinely gun dealers will say WE REQUIRE PHOTO ID and there is no requirement for them to do so and you risk identity theft.

I had a customer who was sending a gun out and the dealer was adamant about demanding photo id copy with the gun. Their basis was that they don't know where the gun is coming from and wanted good records. So, the customer requested that the dealer send back his photo ID so that he knew where the gun is going and wanted good records - with a link to the ATF newsletter that says photo ID copies are not required.

So, my .02.

[kemasa]

The FFL should be willing to give the first three and last five of the FFL number.

While it is not required to provide a copy of an ID, it is also not required that a FFL receive a firearm from a non-licensee. In additional, blanking out the birthday, signature and such is also acceptable, at least in my opinion, but I want some proof of who it is coming from and a return address is not acceptable to me.

[191145ACP]

What the law requires and what a bussiness owner requires, as long as the bussiness owner is not breaking the law, are two completely different things. If he does not want to give me ID, I am ok with telling them no thanks.

[ocmsrzr]

I am going through this as we speak, ie seller didn't include a copy of their DL, and the FFL says they are going to send the shotgun back to the seller.

Anybody got a link to the ATF news letter or reg that says it is not legally require? This is going sideways on me in a hurry.

[kemasa]

I don't know that the FFL can really ship the firearm back. It has to be logged in the bound book and unless it is considered to be sent in for repair or something like that, since the seller is not a FFL, it could be an issue to ship it back, especially if the FFL does not have the information that is desired.

There is nothing which requires a copy of an ID, so it is going to be hard to find something that says that. You could ask the FFL where it is required.

Is there any reason why the seller refuses to send a copy of their ID? To me, it would be acceptable to block out the signature, date of birth and the ID number, but it needs to be shown that it is a valid ID so the expiration needs to be there, at least in part.

[ocmsrzr]

This was a private party transfer from Florida to my FFL in CA. The shotgun arrived via UPS a couple of hours ago and the CA FFL called and said since there was no copy of the seller's ID with the shotgun, I had to get them a copy of the seller's ID before they open tomorrow.

He went on to say this was because of ATF regs that without the copy of the seller's ID, they couldn't log it into their A&D book and would have to send it back tomorrow morning. I know this is BS but the seller is on the other side of the country and works nights. He hasn't refused anything, I just don't know if I can get the copy of his ID in the time the CA FFL is giving me.

FUD from a FFL...lovely ain't it? :/

[kemasa]

Well, you could also call the BATF and ask them, then tell the FFL to call the BATF. Even if the firearm is sent back, the firearm should be logged into the bound book as he did receive it. Honestly, the return address is good enough, but it is far better, at least in my opinion, to get a copy of the ID. I prefer that, but will deal with it if I don't get a copy of the ID.

[ocmsrzr]

I just left there and went 10 rounds with them. After I put a hard copy of the BATF reg under his nose, their story changed to it was a DOJ requirement now.

As far as the bound book, their position is the without the hard copy of the seller's DL, they can't log it into their bound book and that is why they have to ship it back first thing tomorrow morning.

Shame on me, I knew their lousy rep for Customer service but they are a mile from my house. I could have went to Reed's or Metal Dog and their excellent CS...life lesson I guess...still so pissed I am seeing red from their condescending attitude through it all.

[kemasa]

The bound book is only the Feds, so any CA DOJ requirements are meaningless and actually I don't know of any.

[efillc]

We ask that non-FFL's who send firearms to us include a copy of their DL so we can CYA with the ATF. Is it legally required? No. OTOH we have received firearms from "A. Smith" with a return address on the package for a Mailboxes, Etc store, which is not going to pass muster for logging a gun into the A&D book. These usually don't have any indication of who will be receiving the firearm either, so it sits in the safe until someone calls about it.

That said, if your transfer FFL has a good enough return address on the package so that he's comfortable shipping the firearm back (meaning, it's not a PO box, UPS rental box, etc.), then there's really no reason not to use that address to log in the gun.

[ocmsrzr]

The address for the seller is good, his home address. I am at a loss as to why they are so messed up. If the wanted a copy of the seller's DL, I would have made sure that happened but today was the first time they mentioned it.

Frankly I caught them lying...a lot. The story keep changing as I obviously had some knowledge of how FFL's work. They are not a very impressively organized operation...I wonder if they are overreacting because the have been spanked by CA DOJ in the past over paperwork.

I even suggested they ship it to another FFL, in CA or out, and that was a no go either. I am not sure of the legality of that, paperwork wise, in this situation but I just wanted to get my shotgun away from them and into the hands of another FFL that I feel is competent.

[kemasa]

Based on what you said, they don't want to log it into their bound book, which is an issue as even if they send it back, they need to log it. I suspect that they won't if they ship it back. Once they log it, they could ship it to another FFL, but that would cost you more.