Start of DROS without firearm present

[EBR Works]

I see that some FFLs will start DROS on a rifle without the firearm present in their inventory. I also see dealers that will do the same for a handgun as long as they have the correct serial number. Is it "safe" to do this? I have been telling clients that I need their firearm in my hands before beginning the transfer. What would happen if you did this and ATF or DOJ showed up for an audit without the firearm in your possession? Thanks.

[tenpercentfirearms]

The DOJ showed up for an audit and I had a handgun started without it being there. They made my partner cancel it. I was fairly hot about it because there is nothing in the code that says we can't do this, the DOJ just doesn't like it. The stupid handgun was there by 2 PM that day before the agent even left. The $25 wasn't worth arguing about.

So if the DOJ shows up and you have handguns started but not present, they will probably tell you to cancel them. If it happens again and I am there, I am going to refuse and tell them to write me up for it so my lawyers can make an issue of it.

If you want to avoid the problems, then simply stick to your current policy. Customers can wait two more days.

[LG FIREARMS]

I start DROS only on longguns. Should we continue? I don't see a problem with it, YET!!!

Handguns, no.

[Direct Action Solutions]

DOJ said the same thing to us. ATF made a bigger issue of it that DOJ. Told me that we could not DROS any gun that was not yet in the A&D book.

[EBR Works]

Then, I'll stick with my current policy. Thanks guys.
.
..
.

[tenpercentfirearms]

DOJ said the same thing to us. ATF made a bigger issue of it that DOJ. Told me that we could not DROS any gun that was not yet in the A&D book.

That is interesting. I wonder what the ATF is basing this opinion on.

[rbetts]

We'll DROS a long gun since A & D book does not apply at the point we fill out paperwork. Handguns only with firearm in possession since we cannot DROS without it.

Remember folks ATF and DOJ do not mix. What are they inspecting against? Your A & D book. No Gun, no issue. DOJ on the other hand has recourse because they have an audit trail with a DROS.

If new law goes through, things will change of course.

[ripro75]

I wait on handguns only, I have no problem on long guns.

[awall919]

Before the Assult weapons ban went into effect, a buddy of mine started the DROS on an Ak74 which was not only not present at the shop yet but also not completely paid for yet (was making payments). The gun shop owner was a great man (r.i.p), and im not sure if it was completely legal or not but it did happen. With long guns I assume as long as the DROS is completed before the 30 day period is up it should be okay.
Though I may be wrong, i'l have to keep watching this forum for a bit of extra education.

[kemasa]

The BATF has nothing to say on when a DROS is submitted as that is a CA thing.

As I recall, the CA DOJ sent out a letter saying to not submit a DROS until the firearm arrived. I think it was specifically for handguns, but I am not sure as it was a long time ago. I think that the problem occurred because FFLs were submitting a DROS with a false serial number and then "correcting" it.

I personally don't submit a DROS until the firearm arrives since the firearm could be lost, damaged or not as advertised and then there can be a problem with the customer not wanting to pay for the DROS for nothing. It is just not worth it to me.

[BannedinBritain]

I personally don't submit a DROS until the firearm arrives since the firearm could be lost, damaged or not as advertised and then there can be a problem with the customer not wanting to pay for the DROS for nothing. It is just not worth it to me.

This has very rarely been an issue in the past...but we do warn buyers (and have them sign an acknowledgement of the warning) who wish to start a DROS before the long gun arrives. Money for transfer and DROS are collected at time of DROS. If something happens and we don't transfer the firearm, we refund the transfer fee and keep DROS fee.

[kemasa]

Well, why should you refund the transfer fee if you did the paperwork? It means that you worked for free. I would rather wait than to work for free. I have worked for free due to a FFL who falsely advertised a firearm, false pictures, false description, etc. and who refused to pay me for my time. It was not right to charge a good customer for the fraud of that FFL.

[BannedinBritain]

Well, why should you refund the transfer fee if you did the paperwork? It means that you worked for free. I would rather wait than to work for free. I have worked for free due to a FFL who falsely advertised a firearm, false pictures, false description, etc. and who refused to pay me for my time. It was not right to charge a good customer for the fraud of that FFL.

It's a customer service decision. We'll eat the time spent to gain a less negative experience for the customer. Generally (and as I said it doesn't happen very often) the customer still wants the gun they were looking for, so we don't want to charge them our fee twice for the same "transaction", and by not double charging, we get a positive experience for the customer...who passes that along to others.

[kemasa]

Well, I guess I make it easier by just waiting until the firearm arrives :-).

[BannedinBritain]

Well, I guess I make it easier by just waiting until the firearm arrives :-).

Oh agreed, it would be easier...we have to say no so dang often...it's kinda nice to say sure I can do that for you.