Single Shot Exemption Configuration Question

[Direct Action Solutions]

We like everyone else is are selling the single shot exempt pistols here in California. We are aware of the dimensional requirements, but have a question about the bbl length and overall length.

If I was to purchase a threaded bbl and install in in a hand gun then thread an extension on that bbl to meet the bbl length requirement and the overall length requirement, does that extension have to be permanent??

[tenpercentfirearms]

If I was to purchase a threaded bbl and install in in a hand gun then thread an extension on that bbl to meet the bbl length requirement and the overall length requirement, does that extension have to be permanent??

I would be very, very careful for the fact that PC 12276.1 states

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.

So if your SSEs have a fixed magazine then your threaded barrel wouldn't necessarily trigger an assault weapon violation.

Back to your original question, does CA want the barrel length to be permanent like Federal regulations? I am not sure. Good question.

[Direct Action Solutions]

Does the threaded bbl violation still count if the gun is SSE? It would not have the capacity to accept detachable mags.

We were thinking about transferring the gun with the bbl extension threaded on. Have the customer remove the bbl first, then remove the mag block. We can then either install a non threaded bbl into the gun, or send the customer home with all the parts and have him sign an affidavit stating they were aware they could not install the threaded bbl back into the gun.

It would then be up to them to find a factory non-threaded bbl to install in their gun. Or have their local machine shop remove the threads on a lathe.

This only works if the bbl extension does not have to be permanent tho.

[bwiese]

Direct...

Please search for my longwinded fairly recent prior posts on these matters. I'll reiterate here briefly to cover the high ground...

1. Threaded bbl turns a semiauto pistol into an AW unless the gun is properly maglocked (i.e., tool required to remove
   zero-round magazine or whatever mag blocking device is used).
   
   Despite legality, customers for these guns may not be aware of AW laws (unlike OLL AR/AK pistol customers) , and may
   risk disassembly sequence issues triggering illegal AW status when converting their pistol from single-shot to repeater
   configuration.
   
   Most FFLs doing SSE conversions build up a 'library' of extended barrels and zero-round magazines (or training/filler
   "Blue-gun" magazines).
   .
2. Unclear why you think a threaded bbl is needed: what IS typically needed is a LONGER barrel....
   
   The barrel must be a min. of 6" long to get min. required barrel length. The barrel may have to be longer to get minimum
   required overall length of 10.5". (These lengths are measured parallel to bore.)
   .
3. The 6" min bbl length cannot be achieved by a mere screw-on or clamp-on add-on. Any lengthening of a std. barrel must
   be 'permanent' (i.e., a welded on pipe, etc.)
   
   This is so there is a single entity called a "barrel" that 'owns' the total bbl length [As opposed to two separate entities,
   the barrel + whatever extension - and which have their own separate independent and non-addable lengths!]
   .
4. Any length that the bbl is increased *BEYOND* 6" to achieve the overall min. 10.5" overall length DOESN'T have to be
   permanent as there is "...when assembled..." clause in exemption for the overall length.
   .
5. The resultant single-shot pistol must rationally work and be safe. It should be fireable many times (not just once), not
   blow up, not put bystanders at risk, not cut up the user's hands when extracting brass or ammo or loading it, etc.
   
   In particular: any conversion barrels with welded extenders must be examined for linearity/concentricity and lack of bore
   obstructions!! A caliber-specific brass or Delrin rod can help with this.
   
   1911s in 45ACP have the good fortune to have cheap, long 16" barrels available. These barrels should be cut to some
   length below 16" that still allows compliant dimensions, but which also avoids possible worries about CA handgun vs.
   nonhandgun transition/SBR drama.
   .
6. Please remember not to confuse dimensional compliance parameters of 12133PC 'single shot pistol' exemption from the
   separate 12133PC 'single-action revolver' exemption. Also, there is no 'single-action' exemption [otherwise every 1911
   and Browning HiPower would be Roster-exempt!!].
   .
7. For now, handguns converted to 12133PC Roster-exempt status need to be in such an exempt state before DROS, all the
   way thru the 10-day waiting period and pickup. Once the buyer is out the store, he is free to convert his Roster-exempt
   pistol into any other legal configuration... he may wish to even re-enter the gunshop to avail himself of gunsmithing services
   or to swap the barrel for a shorter barrel.

[spencerhut]

Now if we could just get other dealers to stop telling people they are committing a felony by converting a single shot back to a normal gun after the 10-day DROS period is up.

[Direct Action Solutions]

Had the DOJ here last week and asked him very specific questions about it. They know dealers are doing it and are OK with it. He said they were more concerned with hi cap mags than they are with single shot stuff.

[tenpercentfirearms]

What are their large capacity magazine concerns?

[Direct Action Solutions]

Mostly gun show stuff. They don't like the fact that shops are selling rebuild kits. They assume that everyone goes home and puts the rebuild kits together...

[tenpercentfirearms]

Mostly gun show stuff. They don't like the fact that shops are selling rebuild kits. They assume that everyone goes home and puts the rebuild kits together...

They probably do. I know they do at the gun shows as people are constantly coming into my shop and asking how gun show dealers get away with selling large capacity magazines. I ask, "Well the floor plate was off right?" They respond, "Yeah". So I reply, "So if you assemble it into a magazine, you are committing a crime." They somehow miss that part at the gun show table.

DOJ what are you going to do? Until everyone is too old to possibly own them anymore in about 2100 AD, you are pretty much stuck.

[kemasa]

Well, just asked them about 12020(b)(21), which is an exemption to 12020(a)(2) and ask them to explain it. They tend to get quite upset about it.

[dirtyJ]

...
7. For now, handguns converted to 12133PC Roster-exempt status need to be in such an exempt state before DROS, all the
way thru the 10-day waiting period and pickup. Once the buyer is out the store, he is free to convert his Roster-exempt
pistol into any other legal configuration... he may wish to even re-enter the gunshop to avail himself of gunsmithing services
or to swap the barrel for a shorter barrel.

I'm curious as to what DOJ is basing this line of reasoning on. I'm pretty sure I know what this stemmed from, but I hadn't seen anything in the PC that specifically delineates that. I'm sure it's some crappy interpretation by a field agent or three, and I'm sure that it's being worked on, I'm just curious as to the exact wording of the "violation" that brought this about.

[kemasa]

If you convert it back before it is delivered, then they have bought something else. It is just common sense (when dealing with a stupid law).