FFL3 C&R newbie questions

[navy seabee 303]

I am considering getting a C&R but do not understand a lot of the advantages/limitations. I had asked a couple questions on another thread but didn't want to hijack it. I have learned that I could obtain long guns 50+ with no DROS, and some venders will give dealer discounts. Are web based buys from out of state ok? How does a person hunt for qualifying C&R firearms to buy? I am VERY interested in this but am to much of a newie to know any of the basic stuff. I did search many of the forums and just confused myself. I am located in the north bay Sonoma County area if that helps at all. Any and ALL feed back is appreciated.

^

[Josh3239]

The FFL 03 alone doesn't get you much within the borders of California. The addition of the COE with it is where the good stuff is at.

The FFL 03 within California only allows you to purchase face to face or mail order to your door 50+ year old rifles. Outside of California, if the state you are in permits it (many do including neighboring NV and AZ) you can purchase both 50+ year old handguns and rifles face to face.

03 FFL + COE = No waiting periods on C&R handguns but still must to DROS and no more 1 handgun per 30 days on all handguns (C&R and modern). COE is a California certificate issued by the CA DOJ, it will do you no good out of state.

To answer your questions:
- Yes with an 03 FFL you can purchase C&R rifles through the mail and have it sent to your door step. No DROS, no wait period.
- C&Rs can quite easily be found on an online retailers website, there are a few companies that have an entire menu of C&Rs including AimSurplus. You can find plenty at gun shows or on GunBroker.com.

You mentioned dealer discounts. That is correct, if you send some retailer a copy of your FFL 03 they will give you discounts. I currently have my FFL 03 on file with the following retailers who give me discounts: Midway USA, Brownells, Ratworx USA, and Spike's Tactical. They are more but I just haven't bothered, I think Centerfire offers 03 discounts and sells C&R rifles.

[navy seabee 303]

Josh,

Thanks for clearing that up a bunch for me, how difficult is it to get the COE?
lets say I was looking at gunbroker at rifles, I just have to pay attention to the DOM (date of manufacture) is that the way to do it? Sorry again for the noob questions.

[Josh3239]

The COE is very easy to get and in my experience the DOJ gets it to you quick, though I did it two years ago and renewed it last year. The link to it is here in PDF form. The page has instructions on how to get it, IIRC the fee is $80 plus you must do Live Scan fingerprinting and pay the Live Scan operator whatever their fee is.

There are a couple of ways on Gun Broker. Some people will put in their ads that they will ship to FFL 03s otherwise you can just hit the "Contact Seller" button and ask them. Additionally on GunBroker there is a C&R section here. Sometimes sellers put their C&R stuff in the general rifles or handguns for sale section. Some stuff will obviously jump out as C&R.

Also, I almost forgot. When you receive your FFL 03 the ATF will send you a huge packet of information including a little book of rifles and handguns on the ATF's C&R list. I believe you could order that booklet for free somewhere on the ATF's website. Aha, found it. You can look up the updates to the C&R list at this link, open it and look to the right: http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/, the C&R list is here. It is 55 pages, so it might just be better to download it then look at on the web.

[navy seabee 303]

Josh thanks again, I requested the C&R forms and other items when I say the thread the other day. Thanks for all the help and info.

[kemasa]

Also realize that a C&R is not just over 50 years old. Look at the first firearm on the list.

[navy seabee 303]

Kemasa,

I don't follow, which list?

[ke6guj]

Kemasa,

I don't follow, which list?

the C&R list, http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/

[jtmkinsd]

The C&R list is maintained by ATF. Curio and relic firearms can be wide ranging because the definition is pretty open ended. A brand new firearm can be a curio and relic simply because it's a one-of-a-kind, like the Colt 1911 that was auctioned off at the shot show, or based on it's rarity, or monetary value. A "ruling" can be sought on a firearm that is not listed through the process outlined on ATF's website.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#definition

[EBR Works]

The 50 year limit only applies while you are in California. If you are traveling outside California with your C&R license, anything on the C&R list is available to you. Just don't bring anything back into California that would be considered an AW or DD. If you purchase a pistol, you are required to register it when you bring it back home.

[Breadfan]

tag

[Josh3239]

Navy Seabee 303, re-read my post. I actually added several links to it.

Kemasa,

I don't follow, which list?

[navy seabee 303]

Thanks Josh I did see the links I just didn't know what list was being referenced. If I wanted to buy a hand gun from say gunbroker do I have to have it shipped to a FFL? What is the handgun procedure (as I eagerly await my ATF paperwork)?

[EBR Works]

Unfortunately, C&R Handguns purchased on GB need to be shipped to a California FFL and DROSd to you just like any other modern firearm. Antique handguns (manufactured prior to 1898) only are exempt from this and can be shipped to buyers directly even without a C&R.

[navy seabee 303]

I received the paper work from ATF Friday but have a question on completing the form, on the CLEO paperwork do I need to turn that in to the local law enforcement first before I send the ATF paperwork in? Reason I ask the ATF form asks for the name of the local CLEO. I know this word poorly bit I don't know how else to ask it.