C&R FFL Questions

[koldar]

Hello,
I am thinking about getting a C&R FFL to start collecting old rifles and pistols. I have a few questions.

1. Since this is just a C&R FFL and I have no intention of selling the rifles I purchase, do I need to submit any paper work to CA DOJ? I know I need to notify my local law enforcement, but I am unclear about CA DOJ.

2. Do I need to also get a COE to purchase C&R rifles and handguns?

3. Will I be able to buy C&R rifles and handguns from out-of-state companies and have them shipped directly to my address listed on the C&R FFL? I am pretty sure I can, but I still have not found anywhere that says yes or no. I am also pretty sure based on what I have read here that in-state companies will require that I ship to an 01 FFL first.

4. For the records that I need to keep, are there examples anywhere what what a typical record of receipt should look like?

5. Say my friend purchases a C&R rifle online, will he be able to ship it to me and the I would keep the records on the purchase?

6. If I run into Nevada to a gunshow or to a retailer, will I be able to use my license to purchase a gun there without Nevada residency?

Thank you for your help with these questions!

K

[Josh3239]

1. Since this is just a C&R FFL and I have no intention of selling the rifles I purchase, do I need to submit any paper work to CA DOJ? I know I need to notify my local law enforcement, but I am unclear about CA DOJ.

IIRC you don't. You fill out the ATF forms and send them in and send in the copy to LE. This is simply to notify them, LE has no say.

2. Do I need to also get a COE to purchase C&R rifles and handguns?

The COE + C&R combo equals no waiting period on all C&R firearms (long arms and pistols) if purchased from a dealer and additionally you are exempt from the rule prohibiting purchasing more than one handgun from a dealer per month, this goes for all handguns (modern and C&R).

The C&R alone will only allow you to purchase long arms face to face/mail order without conducting a transfer with an FFL in California. All handgun sales always must go through an FFL in California. Outside of California the C&R allows you to skip dealers on rifles and handguns. Outside of California the COE does nothing for you.

3. Will I be able to buy C&R rifles and handguns from out-of-state companies and have them shipped directly to my address listed on the C&R FFL? I am pretty sure I can, but I still have not found anywhere that says yes or no. I am also pretty sure based on what I have read here that in-state companies will require that I ship to an 01 FFL first.

All handguns always must go through an FFL. If you have a C&R you are exempt from the prohibition on one handgun per 30 days. If you have a COE you walk out the door with the pistol the same day.

Long arms can be traded cash for gun right there or shipped to your door.

4. For the records that I need to keep, are there examples anywhere what what a typical record of receipt should look like?

http://www.surplusrifle.com/graphics/boundbookpage.pdf

5. Say my friend purchases a C&R rifle online, will he be able to ship it to me and the I would keep the records on the purchase?

Mmmm, it sounds an aweful lot like you are dealing for this person which an 03 is not allowed to do. There is nothing illegal for an 03 making a mail order purchase of a rifle and having it sent to his house, there is nothing illegal about selling that rifle. Honestly if your friend purchases it and has it sent to you using your FFL, not only are you misusing your FFL but you are committing a straw purchase. Your friend should buy the rifle and have it send to someone with a dealers lisence, not a collector's lisence.

6. If I run into Nevada to a gunshow or to a retailer, will I be able to use my license to purchase a gun there without Nevada residency?

If that firearms is C&R, yes.

[Librarian]

Please see the wiki article http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...sed_Collectors (which is mostly the Federal info) and this http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...wder_Questions which is more CA-centric.

But Josh3239's answer is clearer.

[kemasa]

You need to get a CA DOJ COE and then only non-handguns can be shipped directly to you. Handgun have to go through a FFL, but with the COE, there is no waiting period.

You will need to keep a bound book, which need not be bound or a book. There are examples around. I can give you an example if you need one.

You can receive any non-handgun C&R firearm from any source, other than perhaps CA.

You can pick up C&R firearms while out of CA. For handguns, you need to fill out a form when you return and pay $19 per handgun.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

You need to get a CA DOJ COE and then only non-handguns can be shipped directly to you. Handgun have to go through a FFL, but with the COE, there is no waiting period.

The COE from CalDOJ is not required. It only comes into play when you are acquiring firearms from a California dealer. If a C&R FFL is only having 50+ year old C&R long guns shipped to him from people who are not California dealers, or is acquiring C&R long guns and C&R handguns while outside of California, then he has no reason to get a COE.

[koldar]

Mmmm, it sounds an aweful lot like you are dealing for this person which an 03 is not allowed to do. There is nothing illegal for an 03 making a mail order purchase of a rifle and having it sent to his house, there is nothing illegal about selling that rifle. Honestly if your friend purchases it and has it sent to you using your FFL, not only are you misusing your FFL but you are committing a straw purchase. Your friend should buy the rifle and have it send to someone with a dealers lisence, not a collector's lisence.

Thank you for all of your answers although I'm still a little confused about this part. If I purchase a C&R firearm from out of state and have it shipped to me, I am allowed to sell it? Would selling it have to take place through an 01? Would selling the C&R firearm violate the "engage in business" clause?

The rest I'm tracking with you 100%.

[kemasa]

You are not supposed to use a C&R FFL for business purposes. Buying a firearm with the intent of selling it is a business purpose. Buying a firearm and then deciding you don't like it and decide to sell it is not a business.

Whether it has to go through a 01 FFL depends on the firearm and who you are selling it to. If they have a C&R FFL, then it could go direct. If the firearm is over 50 years old and not a handgun, then it can be sold FTF, but I would be very careful with that as you don't want to be viewed as being in the business of selling firearms.

Not all C&R firearms are over 50 years old, which is the Curio part of C&R. Look at the first firearm on the C&R list.