taurus judge

[Norcal Industries]

i have a relative who has a taurus judge they want to sell me, and they were planning on coming out to visit and possibly private transfer it if it's legal, and so thats my question. is it legal to do a ppt for this gun?

[EBR Works]

California considers the Judge a short barreled shotgun so it's a no go here.

[rudigan]

What impacto said.

[DaveInOroValley]

This may help:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List

[Norcal Industries]

ok, thanks. what about going the aow route?

[jtmkinsd]

ok, thanks. what about going the aow route?

It's a shotgun with a revolving cylinder as well, so it's an assault weapon for that as well...I do not know the particulars, but IIRC there was something some of the 07 FFLs (like Valkyrie) were looking into doing to modify the judge. But I have no information on it. It's basically a no go in this state AFAIK.

[Quiet]

ok, thanks. what about going the aow route?

AOW route... (simplified version)

The out-of-state person making it must submit a Form 1 with $200 to the BATFE to make an AOW.
After BATFE approval, the person can make the Taurus Judge into an AOW by either attaching a forward pistol grip to it or changing the barrel from a rifled barrel to a smoothbore barrel.
After it is made into an AOW, the in-state person must find a CA FFL/SOT dealer and then has the Taurus Judge AOW shipped to that FFL/SOT.
The person then submits a Form 4 with $5 to the BATFE.
After BATFE approval, the CA FFL/SOT dealer completes the transfer to the person.

It's a shotgun with a revolving cylinder as well, so it's an assault weapon for that as well...

The Taurus Judge meets CA's definition of a SBS [PC 12020(c)(1).
The Taurus Judge does not meet CA's definition of a shotgun [PC 12020(c)21), so the shotgun assault weapon law regarding a revolving cylinder does not apply to it [PC 12276.1(a)(8)].

Under CA laws...
... a handgun can also be defined as a SBS or SBR.
... a firearm can be defined as a SBS and not as a shotgun.


Penal Code 12001
(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun," "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.

Penal Code 12020
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
(21) As used in this section, a "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.

[jtmkinsd]

That makes more sense. But begs the question...why then is the Circuit Judge (rifled version) not available? Under the definitions it should be...No?

[ke6guj]

That makes more sense. But begs the question...why then is the Circuit Judge (rifled version) not available? Under the definitions it should be...No?

the circuit judge wouldn't be an SBS since it is over 18" barrel/ 26" OAL. It might be a shotgun AW per 12276.1

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

But does a circuit Judge meet the defintion of a shotgun? There is no section 12276.1 defintion of a shotgun, and if you look further into the PC, there is no chapter-wide defintion of a shotgun either. There is a definition of shotgun in 12020,

12020(c)(21) As used in this section, a "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.

but that defintion says that it is to used for section 12020 issues. Hoffmang has mentioned that The Right People have opined that since there is no chapter-wide defition, that the limited defintion in 12020(c)(21) would probably be used. So, then you have to look at that "smooth barrel" issue, the Circuit Judge doesn't have a smooth bore, so it doesn't fit the definition of a shotgun per the 12020 definition. Is there any other definition of shotgun that could apply here, none that I know of in the PC? That said, you (and your lawyers) need to decide for yourself if a Circuit Judge falls under the defintion of a shotgun, and would therefore be a "shotgun with a revolving cylinder".


note that the CALIFORNIA LAW REVISION COMMISSION noted that the the definition of shotgun might need to be expanded to the entire PC, meaning that the 12020 defintion doesn't currently cover the entire PC.

APPENDIX B. MINOR CLEAN-UP
ISSUES FOR POSSIBLE FUTURE
LEGISLATIVE ATTENTION

In conducting this strictly nonsubstantive study, the
Commission identified a number of minor problems within
Title 2 of Part 4 of the Penal Code, which could not be
addressed without potentially raising concerns about a
substantive change. Those issues are listed here. As far as the
Commission is aware, this list consists of relatively
noncontroversial clean-up issues, not issues involving
substantial controversy. If any of the issues listed below
appears likely to involve substantial controversy, please
notify the Commission.
(1) Consider whether to expand the following definitions
to the entirety of new Part 6 of the Penal Code:

[tonelar]

Confused;
So the circuit judge is a rifle or rifled version?

[EBR Works]

Confused;
So the circuit judge is a rifle or rifled version?

See here:

http://www.shooterforums.com/index.php?topic=564.0