DROS'ing question

[AAShooter]

The last time I purchased stripped lowers, the shop owner encouraged me to pick up a handgun since I could DROS it in the same transaction.

The next time I purchase stripped lowers, I try to add a handgun on the transaction and am told I need to DROS it separately.

What's are the restrictions? I was hoping to DROS everything together to save DROS fees.

[PolishMike]

Long guns and handguns must be dros'd separately. You can add multiple long guns on a dros but that is it.

[AAShooter]

Long guns and handguns must be dros'd separately. You can add multiple long guns on a dros but that is it.

Got it. I must have confused things. Thanks for the clarification.

[kemasa]

There are some FFLs who make claims that you can add non-handguns to a handgun DROS, but if you look at the CA PC you will see that position is really not supported by the law. So, you might have found someone who did it, but then later changed how they do business.

This is a topic which has been discussed many times and there are those who don't agree.

Each firearm transaction has to be reported. Each handgun is a firearm transaction. Any number of non-handguns which are part of a single sale, loan or transfer is considered a single firearm transaction.

[AAShooter]

Thanks, that makes sense.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Each firearm transaction has to be reported. Each handgun is a firearm transaction. Any number of non-handguns which are part of a single sale, loan or transfer is considered a single firearm transaction.

Wrong. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12070.php

12077(d)(4) One firearm transaction shall be reported on each record of sale document. For purposes of this subdivision, a "transaction" means a single sale, loan, or transfer of any number of firearms that are not handguns.

A handgun does not meet the definition of a transaction. Since it isn't a transaction, then you are not limited to one transaction. So you could DROS a handgun and add multiple long guns to it by simply putting them on a 4473.

However, the DOJ will claim you can't based on their desire to get more DROS money and most dealers won't do it either as the $25 savings to the customer is not worth the potential additional hassle come audit time.

So your original question was can you add a handgun to a long gun DROS. No is the answer as handguns are registered.

Can you add long guns onto a handgun DROS? You can by simply putting them down on the 4473. A background check is conducted on the handgun to satisfy the NICS requirement of the 4473. The 4473 additionally allows you to put both handguns, long guns, and recievers on the same single transaction.

[kantstudien]

Have you been audited by the DOJ yet 10%? And if you have, was this issue brought up?

[7.62x54R]

However, the DOJ will claim you can't based on their desire to get more DROS money and most dealers won't do it either as the $25 savings to the customer is not worth the potential additional hassle come audit time.

This seems to be logical. I have a feeling they wont want to explain why you cant. Why bother with the aggravation.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Have you been audited by the DOJ yet 10%? And if you have, was this issue brought up?

I have been audited, but it was not brought up. I have only done two or three transactions like this when my partner asked we not do it anymore.

My ATF auditors stated they see if on CA paperwork all of the time.

Again, it is up to you as a dealer to decide if it is worth the risk or not. I would ask customers if a dealer won't do it, respect their decision and pay your $25 because it is far from clear.

[kemasa]

Cherrypicking the CA PC does not work well. Misreading it to be what you want it to be does not work well either. If Wes were to go before a gun and try to claim that a handgun is not a firearm transaction, he will be laughed at. Look at all the other CA PC sections.

Let's see under Wes' reality, handguns are not a firearm transaction, only non-handguns are. There is a requirement to report all firearm transactions though. So, if a handgun is not a firearm transaction, then a DROS for a handgun is not reporting a firearm transaction. This means that you can not report a long gun firearm transaction on a DROS for a handgun as that is not a report of a firearm transaction. Also, if you add long guns to a handgun DROS you are not reporting the long gun firearm transaction, only the "non-firearm transaction" for the handgun.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Cherrypicking the CA PC does not work well. Misreading it to be what you want it to be does not work well either. If Wes were to go before a gun and try to claim that a handgun is not a firearm transaction, he will be laughed at. Look at all the other CA PC sections.

Let's see under Wes' reality, handguns are not a firearm transaction, only non-handguns are. There is a requirement to report all firearm transactions though. So, if a handgun is not a firearm transaction, then a DROS for a handgun is not reporting a firearm transaction. This means that you can not report a long gun firearm transaction on a DROS for a handgun as that is not a report of a firearm transaction. Also, if you add long guns to a handgun DROS you are not reporting the long gun firearm transaction, only the "non-firearm transaction" for the handgun.

Why do you make this personal? It isn't. The penal code is the reality, not me.

You can laugh at me all you want, the penal code states a non-handguns are not considered a transaction. That is the penal code not me.

There are other parts of the penal code that require you to report a handgun sale, but it still isn't a transaction for 12077. You can't change it. That is the way it is.

I would be comfortable reporting long gun DROS on a handgun DROS. Just because the DOJ doesn't make a space available on the handgun DROS for long gun information, the DROS is still submitted following all of the rules of 12077(a).

I would like to see just one FFL reportedly shut down over any of this. It has never happened. I wonder why if it was so illegal, why the DOJ wouldn't do something about it since some people obviously do it?

[kemasa]

Why do you think it is personal? The problem is that you are promoting something which is not right and even you don't do it. It is also not the PC, it is you and how you choose to read the PC.

I am not laughing at you at all, it is not funny. Look at what I said and try to explain your position based on your own view. If the handgun is not a firearm transaction, then a handgun DROS is not reporting a firearm transaction, so you can try to report a firearm transaction with it when you add a long gun to it. There is no way to "add" a long gun to it actually, you are just claiming it is part of it, but there is no way to actually do it.

It is hard to prove that this was done and the CA DOJ does not inspect all that often and I doubt that they look at the records that closely, UNLESS you give them a reason to do so. If you think that the law is the way it is because the DOJ wants the money, then they would do something so that they get more money. I suspect not much is done because of the work involved to figuring it out. The bottom line is whether you want to be the example case or not. I would think that it is not worth the risk.