FFL selling personal gun.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I am not sure of what additional research you want me to do.

I agree that you should be able to do the transfer as a PPT since the DROS is a state thing, but was told by the BATF agent that it can not be done and as to be done as a dealer transfer according to the legal department. This person is a nice person and has been quite helpful, so it is not a random person to me.

I agree that it seems that if the 4473 is complied with that meets with what you posted. It seems to be that based on what you posted, a FFL should be able to take the firearm to another FFL and have the transfer done as a PPT, but that is NOT what I was told and I am just the messenger.

No offense taken. I provided the additional research.

Where does it prohibit a dealer from completing a PPT of their own firearms? I don't see it.

[kemasa]

I am just repeating what I was told.

If the firearm has to be transferred into the bound book in order to sell it, then the FFL does not personally own it anymore. If that is the case, it can't be done as a PPT, BUT the DROS and PPT is a CA issue, not a Federal one. The Feds are saying that it has to be done as a "dealer sale", which does not really make sense since they can't control how you submit the CA DROS.

Under the section that you quoted, it does not seem to me that the requirement is actually that the FFL transfers it into their own bound book, just that the 4473 gets filled out, which would be the case if they took the firearm to another FFL and did a PPT.

So, I have to agree, I don't see it either, but that is the view I got from the BATF legal people. I doubt that there would be an issue, but you never know.

[ugimports]

I'm all confused now.

So how much of this matters how your FFL is written up. E.g., my FFL is written up in my company name (UG Imports, LLC)? I'm the owner, but my name is nowhere to be seen on the FFL itself. Does this mean I cannot do purchase firearms for myself as a PPT because I'm also a dealer even though the license is my company?

Are all the responses above related to if the FFL is also your own name as many many people do and then do a DBA to run the business?

[kemasa]

There is no issue regarding a FFL not being able to do a PPT, that aspect involves when you can do it. There is a requirement which involves firearms transferred to your personal collection and then transferred within a year, nothing more.

There could be a state issue, which I had not thought of before, regarding taking a firearm from your own personal collection and doing a PPT at another dealer with respect to the CFLC. The law is not specific to firearms for the business, but more general for firearms from a licensed person.

I suspect there is an issue with respect to how the license reads. I am not sure if you can transfer firearms to yourself from the business without the waiting period or not. I am sure that your name is on the paperwork regarding your LLC. I do know that there are issues with respect to corporations, but I don't know all the details.

[ugimports]

There is no issue regarding a FFL not being able to do a PPT, that aspect involves when you can do it. There is a requirement which involves firearms transferred to your personal collection and then transferred within a year, nothing more.

Are we talking about transferred to your personal question through your own FFL? Or if I went to Gun Shop A and did a PPT with someone and then picked it up 10 days later. I guess that's what's confusing me about when we're talking about "transferred to your personal collection".. I

...
I suspect there is an issue with respect to how the license reads. I am not sure if you can transfer firearms to yourself from the business without the waiting period or not. I am sure that your name is on the paperwork regarding your LLC. I do know that there are issues with respect to corporations, but I don't know all the details.

I don't care about the waiting period actually. I haven't transferred anything to myself from inventory yet, but I have done a PPT with someone else through myself as the FFL, but I treated myself as a customer. Collected all the normal paperwork, proof of residency, etc.. and then left it in the safe for 10 days. At the end dated the DROS just like I would any other customer and signed the 4473s.

I'm not sure if what I've done is the same as the topic of discussion and I think that's why I'm confused.

[kemasa]

As Wes quoted:

(1) The licensee has maintained the firearm as part of such collection for 1 year from the date the firearm was transferred from the business inventory into the personal collection or otherwise acquired as a personal firearm,

It does not seem that acquiring a firearm through means others than the FFL's business applies.

What you did was different since the firearm was not transferred from your business to your own personal collection.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I'm all confused now.

So how much of this matters how your FFL is written up. E.g., my FFL is written up in my company name (UG Imports, LLC)? I'm the owner, but my name is nowhere to be seen on the FFL itself. Does this mean I cannot do purchase firearms for myself as a PPT because I'm also a dealer even though the license is my company?

Are all the responses above related to if the FFL is also your own name as many many people do and then do a DBA to run the business?

This section does not apply to you. Only sole proprietorships and partnerships (maybe one more I am leaving out) can sign guns out in the A&D as "For owner's personal collection" without doing a 4473. Corporations cannot.

Now I just went over it with the DOJ as far as waiting periods go. Even though your name is not on the FFL, you are a responsible person. So if you have a COE/CFD with your name on it, the CA DOJ considers you a FFL with CFD for exempting the waiting period.

So for long guns, you do not have to run a DROS! At least I think this is how I recall it. However, you do still need to do a 4473.

Handguns you still have to run a DROS, but you would still be 10 day wait exempt and of course you still have to do a 4473.

Corporations, you are not skipping the 4473 so you can PPT to your heart's desire.

Again, think when talking to the ATF about this, they might not be realizing that a PPT is not a face to face transaction so they shouldn't be treated the same.